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Old 03-19-2015, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
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I think it does children a disservice to maintain fantasies like Santa Claus. Why beat around the bush?

I think we should just come right out and tell them it is really Odin.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
It is so sad that our entire culture as American people is being supplanted with 'diversity' and 'multi-culturalism' to the point where we no longer wish to carry on traditions that are based on anything that smacks of Christianity. It is even sadder when this affects our children.

St. Nicholas (where "Santa Claus" comes from...say the saint's name quicky) was a persecuted Christian in the 4th century AD, from the area we know as southern Turkey. Supposedly he was told by Christ to sell all his things and give the money to the poor...which he did. Thus, what he represents.

These are your children and I'd fight to give you the right to raise them as you see fit.

- Father of 2, grandfather of 6.
You do realize that the traditional Sinter Klaus was brought to America by German immigrants, right? And that the current incarnation of Santa Claus that Americans are familiar with was a commercial invention to sell Coca-Cola? It's not being supplanted because it smacks of Christianity, in fact there's nothing Christian at all about the fat man in the red suit.

Personally I have more respect for Christians who celebrate Christmas as the recognition of Christ's birth and leave all the commercial crap (including Santa) out of it. At least they're being honest about their beliefs.

Anyway, I didn't raise my kids with Santa and they turned out just fine. They understood that other kids believed it, the same way kids (including them) believe in other fairy tales because it stirs the imagination. But I never, ever claimed there was a real man who came to our house and delivered all the presents because that would be a lie. They knew who their presents came from, and they knew I wouldn't lie to them either.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Illinois
4,751 posts, read 5,407,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Yeah, but Jesus was not born in December.
Nor was he born in the fall. The shepherds were in the fields to keep an eye on the ewe's that were due to give birth, which happens in spring.
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Old 03-20-2015, 02:00 AM
 
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I told my three kids the truth from the get-go. I simply couldn't lie to them. I framed it this way: "Santa isn't a real person. He's a fun character, like from a story book. Lots of kids believe he's real, though, so be careful what you say. They'll find out eventually, but let it be from someone else. But if someone directly asks you if Santa is real, you should gently tell the truth." It certainly appeared that my kids didn't feel cheated out of the magic of Santa, but as parents themselves, they have allowed their kids to believe. Still, my grown children don't make a big deal about Santa with their offspring.
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Old 03-20-2015, 02:10 AM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,298 posts, read 14,107,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
It is so sad that our entire culture as American people is being supplanted with 'diversity' and 'multi-culturalism' to the point where we no longer wish to carry on traditions that are based on anything that smacks of Christianity. It is even sadder when this affects our children.

St. Nicholas (where "Santa Claus" comes from...say the saint's name quicky) was a persecuted Christian in the 4th century AD, from the area we know as southern Turkey. Supposedly he was told by Christ to sell all his things and give the money to the poor...which he did. Thus, what he represents.

These are your children and I'd fight to give you the right to raise them as you see fit.

- Father of 2, grandfather of 6.
Good point, it's become a myth derived from an actual person who is still considered to be a saint by the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suppose the best way is to tell the kiddies that he's a "pretend" person, like the ones on Sesame St. It could become a lesson as they grow older about how historical figures like Jesus or the Buddha can become mythologized, and then cause great trouble and change the flow of history as people come to believe the tales literally.

On the other hand, telling the fables and then letting them find out the truth about Santa teaches a valuable lesson: that everyone, including parents, can lie through their teeth and shouldn't ever be completely trusted. Look skeptically at everything people try to sell you, whether it's a car or an ideology or a religion.

I do remember the pain I felt when I realized I'd been had though even now I don't take my own advice enough, I still get taken in by someone with a good spiel - especially attractive women.
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Old 03-20-2015, 04:19 AM
 
36 posts, read 38,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
Nor was he born in the fall. The shepherds were in the fields to keep an eye on the ewe's that were due to give birth, which happens in spring.
Right. I've heard this. I thought it was supposed to be May? Either way....

I would be really sad looking back on my childhood if my parents had taken away the whole santa thing. The anticipation...the various ways they "proved" he was there. Watching where he is in the world on the santa tracker and wanting to get to sleep so he could come and it'd be morning. Such a magical time. I gradually figured it out on my own but wasn't mad or upset. In my family its just what you do. Your parents did it for you, you do it for your kids, etc. I plan on continuing that. I would never want to take away something so magical from my kids. You don't get a do over and there are only so many years that they are small.
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Old 03-20-2015, 04:46 AM
 
19,959 posts, read 30,007,929 times
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perpetuating a myth???? lies!??

every 4 years we, as adults vote for presidents(we want to believe) that promise all the right things in campaigns,,,but never come true


let kids be kids,,,,,,,, there's enough lie-ing when we are adults
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Sodo Sopa at The Villas above Kenny' s House.
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My daughter is 8 and is aware Santa isn't real but still enjoys the hoopla around it. Santa was never the focus of our Xmas and tbh I think she probably caught on around 4-5yrs old. When she started asking about if he was real I didn't want to lie but I also didn't want to rob her of the belief. I just always took the stance that Xmas is a spiritual time and Santa though I've never been to the North Pole is working through all of us. It's the celebration and not just about Santa himself. Seemed to work fine with her. She plays along with seeing Santa every year and watching the cartoons while knowing the gifts don't really come off a sleigh. Same thing with tooth fairy,Easter Bunny and the great pumpkin.

I grew up basically the same way but I figured it out more on my own. My brother however was in tears at 9 when he finally realized it was a charade. My kids happy as long as she gets the gifts no matter who brings them.lol
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:19 AM
 
Location: England
26,273 posts, read 8,381,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
Wait.... Santa's not real?
Nope he's not. My dad told me. Broke my heart....... I was only 19.
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:41 AM
 
3,636 posts, read 3,408,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Kids always have great imaginations and have imaginary friends, so what is the harm ?
Hard to say what the harm is really. It certainly is not a builder of confidence and trust to find out not only you were lied to - but that you were done so on a grand contrived scale involving multiple sources all conspiring together. It makes you wonder who or what you CAN trust. But I remain agnostic on whether that is a good thing or not - in a species that appears not to question things _enough_ - to inspire children to question everything they are told.

But we often lose our imaginations as we grow older. I sometimes wonder if that has to be so. Perhaps if we fed the imagination of our children with fuel it can use to develop itself and self sustain - rather than lies that they later divest themselves of and doing all their imagination for them - it might have an effect on this for all I know. I know of no studies on this alas.

As you say children have imaginations and imaginary friends. But they also seem acutely aware of the dividing line between imagination and reality. They can enter into the world of imagination and creativity deeper than adults usually - but they do so without ever losing connection with reality or losing sight of the fact it is play and imagination. With Santa and Fairies this is not so. We are actively blurring that line and selling them fantasy and imagination AS reality. And this at least makes me wary at the very least.

So overall I remain agnostic on whether there is a right or wrong answer here - but I just know it is not for me and I have not perpetuated the myth - or any other myth that I am aware of - to my children so far. And I practice honesty or silence over lies at every point so far in their development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Let them be kids for as long as possible, they will have to face the harsh realities of the world soon enough, so this little bit of fun is so precious to so many of them while it lasts.
That would be where I am less agnostic however. Not perpetuating the myths of Santa and Fairies is one thing - but do not conflate it as "not letting them being kids" or removing their fun while childhood lasts.

That is the kind of guilt trip people perpetuate on those who do not do Santa. And it is entirely unwarranted. It basically says "If you do not feed the imagination of your children - or the fun of your children - by the methods I do - then you must be denying them their fun and childhood".

It is not so. There are multiple paths and methods to indulge the imagination, childhood, and fun of our youth. And not doing the Santa thing in no way hampers that endeavour. It is just a myth perpetuated by judgemental busy bodies to suggest you are denying children anything at all by not doing the Santa thing.
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