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Old 05-19-2015, 11:42 AM
 
6,720 posts, read 8,349,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy20 View Post
I have a genuine question for the " shaming the child" and "self esteem" crowd and I'm not trying to be difficult. Most teen/tween girls I know would probably shrug, be annoyed but cover up at the end and go about their business of having fun. My daughter gets annoyed at the dress code, complies and carries on with her business. Is this body shaming something the parents are magnifying and making an issue for their kids? Or is this having a deep psychological impact on these young ladies?

It seems this is more of a parent problem with the rules?
Why should girls be made to be ashamed of their bodies? What is wrong with females wearing a swimsuit? Why are boys allowed to wear normal swimwear, but girls must "cover up"?

Some girls and some boys may want to wear T shirts. Some may not. Why make it obligatory for only one gender?

My own child would shrug it off because she has a healthy self esteem, but others don't. Middle school is a delicate time in the develop of both gender's self esteem.

It would be like telling women in a company they have to wear smocks over their work attire while men don't. It's just odd.
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Old 05-19-2015, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 53,866,159 times
Reputation: 47912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy20 View Post
I have a genuine question for the " shaming the child" and "self esteem" crowd and I'm not trying to be difficult. Most teen/tween girls I know would probably shrug, be annoyed but cover up at the end and go about their business of having fun. My daughter gets annoyed at the dress code, complies and carries on with her business. Is this body shaming something the parents are magnifying and making an issue for their kids? Or is this having a deep psychological impact on these young ladies?

It seems this is more of a parent problem with the rules?
Any parent of a young daughter who frets in the mirror that she doesn't have a thigh gap, isn't skinny enough, nose is too big, eyes too far apart, tummy too protruding, breasts too flat, on and on and who might end up with serious and sometimes fatal eating disorder can tell you "the body shaming and self-esteem" is a very serious issue.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:10 PM
 
1,515 posts, read 2,266,061 times
Reputation: 3138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
Why should girls be made to be ashamed of their bodies? What is wrong with females wearing a swimsuit? Why are boys allowed to wear normal swimwear, but girls must "cover up"?

Some girls and some boys may want to wear T shirts. Some may not. Why make it obligatory for only one gender?

My own child would shrug it off because she has a healthy self esteem, but others don't. Middle school is a delicate time in the develop of both gender's self esteem.

It would be like telling women in a company they have to wear smocks over their work attire while men don't. It's just odd.
Who is making them ashamed though? I think parent outrage would contribute more to the problem than what the teen may feel. The school just makes a rule. "Girls will wear a white T-shirt." Similar to some prom rules that may prohibit strapless gowns for the girls. I think there's was similar outrage over this ruling a few year ago. Or skirts above a certain length. I genuinely don't get the shaming part of this equation. Granted, for equal opportunity boys should follow the same rules and everyone should have been required to wear a shirt. Again my puzzlement was more on the shaming and self esteem comments I'm seeing here ( with this whole Tshirt controversy).

I suspect the school just wanted to make it easier for the staff and not have to deal with issue of skimpy outfits some teen girls love wearing. I've had to fight that battle with my DD and welcomed a T shirt rule at one trip they took.

Thanks for clarifying though. @no kudzu....I understand what you are saying about self esteem and body image and how this is can be a serious problem amongst boys and girls. Had a HS friend who spent years grappling with this as did her daughter. It does exist, can be very serious. My confusion is this T shirt requirement and how it could translate into that when it isn't directed at one person. I see it as more of an annoying rule and irritant. That is why I was asking the question. My initial question wasn't clear...sorry.

Last edited by Siggy20; 05-19-2015 at 05:31 PM..
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:15 PM
 
6,720 posts, read 8,349,923 times
Reputation: 10409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy20 View Post
Who is making them ashamed though? I think parent outrage would contribute more to the problem than what the teen may feel. The school just makes a rule. "Girls will wear a white T-shirt." Similar to some prom rules that may prohibit strapless gowns for the girls. I think there's was similar outrage over this ruling a few year ago. Or skirts above a certain length. I genuinely don't get the shaming part of this equation. Granted, for equal opportunity boys should follow the same rules and everyone should have been required to wear a shirt. Again my puzzlement was more on the shaming and self esteem comments I'm seeing here.

I suspect the school just wanted to make it easier for the staff and not have to deal with issue of skimpy outfits some teen girls love wearing. I've had to fight that battle with my DD and welcomed a T shirt rule at one trip they took.

Thanks for clarifying though.
If someone asked my gender to wear a smock or large tshirt over my work attire, but the other gender could wear regular work attire I would question it. Do they think what I am wearing is not appropriate? Is there something wrong with what I am wearing? Do I not look right? It could be male or female really.

Now put that situation on a 12 year old.

They all need to wear Tshirts or make it optional.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:38 PM
 
5,413 posts, read 6,675,145 times
Reputation: 9351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy20 View Post
Who is making them ashamed though? I think parent outrage would contribute more to the problem than what the teen may feel. The school just makes a rule. "Girls will wear a white T-shirt." Similar to some prom rules that may prohibit strapless gowns for the girls. I think there's was similar outrage over this ruling a few year ago. Or skirts above a certain length. I genuinely don't get the shaming part of this equation. Granted, for equal opportunity boys should follow the same rules and everyone should have been required to wear a shirt. Again my puzzlement was more on the shaming and self esteem comments I'm seeing here ( with this whole Tshirt controversy).

I suspect the school just wanted to make it easier for the staff and not have to deal with issue of skimpy outfits some teen girls love wearing. I've had to fight that battle with my DD and welcomed a T shirt rule at one trip they took.

Thanks for clarifying though. @no kudzu....I understand what you are saying about self esteem and body image and how this is can be a serious problem amongst boys and girls. Had a HS friend who spent years grappling with this as did her daughter. It does exist, can be very serious. My confusion is this T shirt requirement and how it could translate into that when it isn't directed at one person. I see it as more of an annoying rule and irritant. That is why I was asking the question. My initial question wasn't clear...sorry.
Why are the girls assumed to be wearing something inappropriate and not the boys? Why are firms responsible for boys behavior if the can't deal with a female in public?
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:52 PM
 
1,515 posts, read 2,266,061 times
Reputation: 3138
Hy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
If someone asked my gender to wear a smock or large tshirt over my work attire, but the other gender could wear regular work attire I would question it. Do they think what I am wearing is not appropriate? Is there something wrong with what I am wearing? Do I not look right? It could be male or female really.

Now put that situation on a 12 year old.

They all need to wear Tshirts or make it optional.

Well we could go on with other examples all day of workplace stuff (smocks, burkas, Tshirts, etc) with rhetorical questions. Unfortunately I've worked in places that weren't entirely equitable when it came to genders. Why the heck can males get away with typical engineering apparel and women can't? Lol. It has always been this way every darned place I've worked!

Fortunately we aren't talking about an adult work environment. We are talking about a school event with probably frazzled administrators hastily making rules for the pool event. I'll say again....T's should be required for everyone. I agree. After rereading the article, saw that they changed the requirement to " appropriate attire." Going back to my earlier confusion, still not clear on the body shaming aspect and if this truly was an issue for any kids attending the party other than, "Mom, I hate these stupid dress codes." That's all I'm saying and I've kinda said enough. Thanks for the discussions.

Last edited by Siggy20; 05-19-2015 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 53,866,159 times
Reputation: 47912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy20 View Post
I have a genuine question for the " shaming the child" and "self esteem" crowd and I'm not trying to be difficult. Most teen/tween girls I know would probably shrug, be annoyed but cover up at the end and go about their business of having fun. My daughter gets annoyed at the dress code, complies and carries on with her business. Is this body shaming something the parents are magnifying and making an issue for their kids? Or is this having a deep psychological impact on these young ladies?

It seems this is more of a parent problem with the rules?
Any parent of a young daughter who frets in the mirror that she doesn't have a thigh gap, isn't skinny enough, nose is too big, eyes too far apart, tummy too protruding, breasts too flat, on and on and who might end up with serious and sometimes fatal eating disorder can tell you "the body shaming and self-esteem" is a very serious issue.
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:51 PM
 
6,720 posts, read 8,349,923 times
Reputation: 10409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy20 View Post
Hy


Well we could go on with other examples all day of workplace stuff (smocks, burkas, Tshirts, etc) with rhetorical questions. Unfortunately I've worked in places that weren't entirely equitable when it came to genders. Why the heck can males get away with typical engineering apparel and women can't? Lol. It has always been this way every darned place I've worked!

Fortunately we aren't talking about an adult work environment. We are talking about a school event with probably frazzled administrators hastily making rules for the pool event. I'll say again....T's should be required for everyone. I agree. After rereading the article, saw that they changed the requirement to " appropriate attire." Going back to my earlier confusion, still not clear on the body shaming aspect and if this truly was an issue for any kids attending the party other than, "Mom, I hate these stupid dress codes." That's all I'm saying and I've kinda said enough. Thanks for the discussions.
What do male engineers wear that women can't wear? Shirt? Pants? Shoes? Women can wear dresses or skirts. Beyond that, I have no clue what would be different in what men and women wear in the workplace.

Edit: so I looked in my husband's closet to see what he wears as an engineer.

Slacks- yes, I have those too.
Button down shirts- check! Me too.
Polo style shirts- yep, ditto.

Last edited by Meyerland; 05-19-2015 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:02 PM
 
5,413 posts, read 6,675,145 times
Reputation: 9351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
What do male engineers wear that women can't wear? Shirt? Pants? Shoes? Women can wear dresses or skirts. Beyond that, I have no clue what would be different in what men and women wear in the workplace.
I once worked in a place with a very strict dress code (ironic a uniform company)...women had to wear panty hose at all times...even if they were wearing pants. The men certainly didn't have to wear hose under their pants.

Also on Fridays men were allowed jean style khaki pants and polo shirts. Women were not allowed to wear polos and the pants could be khaki colored but not have typical jean styling of back patch pockets etc.

This was the early 2000s....they had started to change when I left...but it was a slooooooow processes.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:10 PM
 
6,720 posts, read 8,349,923 times
Reputation: 10409
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletG View Post
I once worked in a place with a very strict dress code (ironic a uniform company)...women had to wear panty hose at all times...even if they were wearing pants. The men certainly didn't have to wear hose under their pants.

Also on Fridays men were allowed jean style khaki pants and polo shirts. Women were not allowed to wear polos and the pants could be khaki colored but not have typical jean styling of back patch pockets etc.

This was the early 2000s....they had started to change when I left...but it was a slooooooow processes.
Yes, I had to wear hose with pumps to teach in the late nineties. (Hose and pants.)

That changed a few years later. That's weird about the jeans.
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