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My son has ADHD, which first manifested itself as delayed speech and avoiding eye contact. The more confrontational the situation, the more he avoided it without acknowledgement. Smacking and punishing him would have been ineffective.
Exactly! My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and "emerging ODD" at the age of 6. I thought the doctor had no idea what he was talking about. Here we had a funny, pleasant, adorable little girl. She wasn't destructive or rebellious. She never had a temper tantrum. She loves to please people and get positive attention. When I looked up "ODD" it just didn't match up.
The doctor pointed out though, that, because of the ADHD it was difficult for her to process commands. When she was asked to do something, her typical response was to to do something cute instead. She'd do something wacky or a little dance or start a conversation about something silly. He explained it was a technique she developed to avoid the harder task of stopping everything going on in her brain and focusing on the simple request. He said it's adorable at 6, but if it turned into full-blown ODD when she hit her teen years, I'd be left heartbroken. She was defying me, but as cute as Shirley Temple when she did it, so it wasn't obvious.
We did intensive family therapy for about six months. She is almost 14 now, and full blown ODD never developed, though I am mindful that we aren't done yet. She still has her ways of avoiding hard tasks. I can honestly say that physical punishment would have accelerated, not deterred her oppositional behavior.
As for time-outs, in my opinion, completely and utterly useless in kids with ADHD and probably useless in the rest of the population as well. To me, it's like a pilot announcing that you're in a holding pattern and will be circling to land for the next half hour so just sit still. I have never seen an adult get off a plane calmer than they were before that ordeal so I don't know why we think it works in kids.
People this is a very good informative and impressive thread, but I just need to caution you about rude or off topic posts that should be reported instead of engaging.
I have no doubt that ODD is a real thing. I also have no doubt that it is over-diagnosed and that some children who are diagnosed with ODD have caregivers who are seeking a drug fix for behavioral problems that a child will outgrow or that can be corrected with consistent discipline.
I am NOT speaking to anyone who has posted on here about his or her own child. I presume you know what you're doing and are doing the right thing by your child.
I have had a few children in my classes over the years that were identified as having ODD. It's real. One had been born with crack in his system. The other had a myriad of issues.
It's not like they are handing out this label like they do some other ones. These kids are a handful, that's for sure.
Corporal punishment would not fix this issue, but would probably make it worse.
Yes to the bolded. I don't think that people here realize that babies that are born addicted have poor impulse control.
Scientists using the scientific method to prove something, doesn't prove anything? Um, what? Someone didn't pass 5th grade science class, lol.
You''re not following the scientific method if you ignore alternative plausible explanations for a particular outcome.
Perfect example:
"Kids who are spanked do worse later in life than kids who are not spanked. So spanking causes them to do worse."
Alternative plausible explanation (unscientifically rejected in advance as a competing hypothesis):
"Kids who are spanked do worse later in life not because they were spanked but because they needed to be spanked."
Quote:
Oh oh and did you know that there's this giant food industry that's vested in finding people to feed?! Really I swear! It's all a bunch of hype! Starvation is a total lie man, food is just a tool big brother uses to CONTROL YOU and TAKE YOUR MONEY. You don't need to eat!! Seriously! Back in the day, NO ONE ATE! And we're fine! There is NO SUCH THING as starvation. Total BS dude!!!!
Sir, you are funny
Guess I struck a nerve.
The mental health industry is loaded with pseudo-scientific clap-trap, and I urge people to be especially careful of taking drugs with all kinds of unwelcome side effects.
Homosexuality as mental illness was not universally accepted by many in the psychological field....PROVE to me that disorders like ASD/ADHD/ODD don't exist, then we can talk. Simply saying that one thing used to be considered a mental illness and now is not does nothing to bolster your argument.
Sorry. It does bolster my argument.
As for proving that ABC/DEF/GHI/JKL or whatever don't exist...the burden of proof is on those who say they do exist.
The American Psychological Association did not take homosexuality off its list of mental disorders until the mid 1970s.
It took the American Psychiatric Association a lot longer.
I highly recommend that people search out books by psychiatrists and psychoanalysts written in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s that have chapters or series of case studies on homosexuality or "inversion" -- a term used by many of those "experts" to describe homosexuals.
They are quite bizarre, with case notes such as, "The patient appeared to have poor muscle tone, was pale and had a shy, effeminate manner. He was so lacking in healthy color that he seemed almost like a living corpse. He wanted to be a ballet dancer. Blah, blah, blah."
Even better: A best seller in the early 1970s or late 1960s entitled, "Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex* (* but were afraid to ask)"....stereotypes, misinformation and lurid descriptions of "what they actually do" for days....All backed up by "the most rigorous science."
I even remember a self-help book where a therapist theorized that homosexuals hate each other.
And another great one: Albert Ellis, Ph.D., "Rational Emotive Therapy" -- lots of nonsense in there about homosexuality.
Another esteemed therapist who was downright hostile to homosexuals was Ernest Van Den Haag.
There was a time when "inverts" were "treated" (or rather, tortured) in state prison hospitals for sex offenders with aversion therapy drugs such as succinylcholine, which paralyzes your breathing.
They would be put on ventilators, which would be turned on and off as part of the "therapy."
Let's just admit that psychology is not an exact science and leave it at that. No one should automatically buy what the "experts" say.
Freud objected to categorizing homosexuality as a mental illness and cautioned psychoanalysts not to succumb to folk prejudices in their diagnoses. Too bad he was ignored.
A lot of diagnosis strikes me as "flavor of the day" and should be taken with a big grain of salt.
Not dismissed out of hand, of course, but not uncritically accepted either.
Last edited by dechatelet; 07-13-2015 at 11:47 PM..
It's a fact that there is a lot of over diagnosis going around. Be it ADD, ODD, ADHD, Gluten Intolerance, nut allergies, Fibromyalgia, Lupus... these are just the ones I personally know of that have been misdiagnosed.
The over diagnoses phenomenon makes it so difficult for those who have these RARE and REAL problems.
My sister in law, diagnosed with gluten intolerance... but will order and eat two plates of alfredo pasta... my aunt who sleeps in an unheated waterbed but claims she has fibromyalgia, the lady at church who keeps Quaker granola bars in her purse to give her ADHD diagnosed son with nut and gluten allergies when he starts yelling at her that he's hungry at inappropriate times/places, two people I know that have "lupus"... but live normal lives except when having a disease would make that normal life inconvenient, adhd - don't get me started. I know two children with this. And 20+ diagnosed. My cousins with whatever disease is "trendy"... I could fill books with the stories... the "cerebal palsy" story was especially entertaining. The only diagnosis some of them (or their overbearing mothers) seem to have in common (but reject) are the personality disorders.
These things are REAL. But I think mental illness is more common.
FWIW, my daughter was diagnosed with ODD when she was six after she had been in our home as a foster-adopt child for months and continued to be extremely resistant to any kind of discipline, along with an almost unbelievable need to control others, even adults. However, I have come to the conclusion that with many of these "personality disorders", including ODD, the label is just "shorthand" for a description or list of behavioral problems/challenges.
However, these labels and their abbreviations do come in handy when talking with people who have an understanding of the disorders, and they do make it easier to research possible courses of action that parents and teachers can use to help (or at least deal with) the "disorder."
I was talking to a parent the other day, and the parent said their kid has ADHD (doesn't everyone, now?) and "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", or ODD. ODD was a new one to me, so I looked it up...
I'm starting to think we create medical labels to make excuses for everything. It isn't your fault you don't discipline your child, and it isn't your fault he acts up. He just has "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", and the disorder makes him not do what you say.
It seemed to me like the teen was being a regular teenager without boundaries. He's picks on and cusses his parents, and they don't know what to do with him. They got onto him for something he did, and he went around moving furniture and unplugging stuff to get back at them. If you let a teen run wild without any consequences, of course they're going to take advantage of every inch you give them and try to take more. However, if you discipline your child or teen and enforce a certain standard, they won't get "Oppositional Defiant Disorder".
A coworker summed it up pretty well when he said the cure for ODD back in the day was a belt.
I'm opening the floor for discussion from psychologists/non-spanking parents who will say this disorder is real and the parents who keep their kids in line who say it is a made up excuse. Go!
I have first hand experience dealing with a child that has ADHD with ODD. This is not a joke. This is a serious condition. It is very easy for someone who has not lived through this experience to not get it. This is not a choice or bad behaviour. This is a neurobehavioral disorder which means it is a problem with the way the brain processes information. Hitting a child with this condition will not help the situation and in fact will make it worse. The behaviours of this child and the triggers of the behaviour need to be examined. Usually medication as well as psychotherapy is required. This is not related to bad parenting. Ignorance and unwillingness to really analyze a condition is the easy way out. It is very easy to simply label things, people and situations as good and bad. Life and the brain are more complex then that. If you have not experienced it first had who are you to just simply dismiss this condition as a joke. If a child exhibiting symptoms of ADHD with ODD is not assessed and treated they are very likely to suffer life long negative consequences. Do you realize that indirectly you are promoting the abuse of children with mental illness? This is in fact a classified form of mental illness. Parents of children with ADHD need to learn their children's triggers and coach them on how to manage these triggers so they can learn to thrive in the world. Children and adults living with ADHD or ADHD with ODD are intellectually challenged, but often fall behind in school or are not able to meet their full potential because the standard school structure does not accomidate their condition. I can tell anyone with 100% certainty that hitting a child with this condition is not effective. It will not help improve their behaviour and only make the situation worse for both the parent and the child. If your child is showing signs of ADHD with ODD you NEED TO SEEK help from a doctor and psychologist and do not let ignorant people that really do not know any better shame you in to thinking your child's behaviour is related to bad parenting.
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