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Old 07-15-2015, 11:40 AM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,608,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
FWIW, my daughter was diagnosed with ODD when she was six after she had been in our home as a foster-adopt child for months and continued to be extremely resistant to any kind of discipline, along with an almost unbelievable need to control others, even adults. However, I have come to the conclusion that with many of these "personality disorders", including ODD, the label is just "shorthand" for a description or list of behavioral problems/challenges.

However, these labels and their abbreviations do come in handy when talking with people who have an understanding of the disorders, and they do make it easier to research possible courses of action that parents and teachers can use to help (or at least deal with) the "disorder."
Thanks for posting. I'm wondering whether your daughter was put on medication and if so, for how long? If she wasn't on medication, how did you manage her behaviors? Also, how long has it been since she was diagnosed and does she still have the same issues?

I've recently dealt with some of these issues through a professional connection and I'm interested in how parents deal with it.
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Old 07-15-2015, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,452 posts, read 8,997,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
Thanks for posting. I'm wondering whether your daughter was put on medication and if so, for how long? If she wasn't on medication, how did you manage her behaviors? Also, how long has it been since she was diagnosed and does she still have the same issues?

I've recently dealt with some of these issues through a professional connection and I'm interested in how parents deal with it.
No, we did not put her on medication -- it wasn't even recommended.

We got a book about ODD -- I don't know the title, and this was about 1998 -- she was diagnosed at age six -- so it is probably outdated, anyway. We faithfully followed what was suggested in the book, which was basically to set aside an hour every day to let her COMPLETELY call the shots and decide what to do, which -- supposedly -- would then make her more willing to do what we wanted her to do, but it didn't work. All she wanted to do was to play something like Candyland or Go Fish and eat as much dessert as she wanted, and it made NO difference in her general defiance of us, so after about six weeks or so of this, we said, "Well, okay, this is obviously not working!" and she is just getting her way even more than before, so we stopped. Another thing we did do which we continued to do all through her time with us was to have a LOT of consistency and a behavior rewards/consequences system that worked well. (This was my own "invention" by the way. We had learned that we were really powerless to force her to do anything, but if she misbehaved, she would lose money and privileges, whereas if she did what she was expected to do in school and at home, she was rewarded.) We also provided all kinds of different extracurricular activities (Girl Scouts, piano lessons, ballet lessons, etc.) but none of them really lasted or "took".

Anyway, I am not saying that what we did was the Eureka! answer, but her therapists did approve. (She had two different ones at different times, although her therapist helped me more than they helped her!) However, despite everything we tried to do, she still left our home just before her 18th birthday after she had spent the previous year mainly cutting classes, and we had given her the ultimatum that she either had to stay in school and continue to obey our rules, or else leave, so she chose to leave. She went back to bio-mom, and that lasted three months, and during her time with her bio-mom, she was arrested twice, once for shoplifting and once for assault.

BUT, about three years ago, she reached out to us again, and although her life is not perfect and neither is our relationship with her -- she is still HIGHLY manipulative and a "user" -- she is now, at age 23, engaged to a very nice man and seems to be finally getting her life together, and my husband's and my relationship with her is better than it ever has been before.

I should tell you, though, that many of her issues stemmed from her being removed from her bio mom when my daughter was five due to severe neglect (her bio mom was a cocaine addict and is now a meth addict, according to my daughter), and she was also diagnosed at later times with Reactive Attachment Disorder, Conduct Disorder, and Depression. As I am sure you know, no two children are alike, even if they do have the same diagnosis!
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:36 PM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,608,308 times
Reputation: 26860
Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
No, we did not put her on medication -- it wasn't even recommended.

We got a book about ODD -- I don't know the title, and this was about 1998 -- she was diagnosed at age six -- so it is probably outdated, anyway. We faithfully followed what was suggested in the book, which was basically to set aside an hour every day to let her COMPLETELY call the shots and decide what to do, which -- supposedly -- would then make her more willing to do what we wanted her to do, but it didn't work. All she wanted to do was to play something like Candyland or Go Fish and eat as much dessert as she wanted, and it made NO difference in her general defiance of us, so after about six weeks or so of this, we said, "Well, okay, this is obviously not working!" and she is just getting her way even more than before, so we stopped. Another thing we did do which we continued to do all through her time with us was to have a LOT of consistency and a behavior rewards/consequences system that worked well. (This was my own "invention" by the way. We had learned that we were really powerless to force her to do anything, but if she misbehaved, she would lose money and privileges, whereas if she did what she was expected to do in school and at home, she was rewarded.) We also provided all kinds of different extracurricular activities (Girl Scouts, piano lessons, ballet lessons, etc.) but none of them really lasted or "took".

Anyway, I am not saying that what we did was the Eureka! answer, but her therapists did approve. (She had two different ones at different times, although her therapist helped me more than they helped her!) However, despite everything we tried to do, she still left our home just before her 18th birthday after she had spent the previous year mainly cutting classes, and we had given her the ultimatum that she either had to stay in school and continue to obey our rules, or else leave, so she chose to leave. She went back to bio-mom, and that lasted three months, and during her time with her bio-mom, she was arrested twice, once for shoplifting and once for assault.

BUT, about three years ago, she reached out to us again, and although her life is not perfect and neither is our relationship with her -- she is still HIGHLY manipulative and a "user" -- she is now, at age 23, engaged to a very nice man and seems to be finally getting her life together, and my husband's and my relationship with her is better than it ever has been before.

I should tell you, though, that many of her issues stemmed from her being removed from her bio mom when my daughter was five due to severe neglect (her bio mom was a cocaine addict and is now a meth addict, according to my daughter), and she was also diagnosed at later times with Reactive Attachment Disorder, Conduct Disorder, and Depression. As I am sure you know, no two children are alike, even if they do have the same diagnosis!
Thank you for the detailed response and many kudos to your and your husband for sticking it out. Sounds like your daughter has turned out pretty well, considering the rough beginning. I also wonder about what drugs and alcohol she was exposed to in the womb and the effect any of that may have had on her development and behavior.

Thanks again for the post.
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,750 posts, read 5,672,126 times
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Default Just want to make sure this comes across clearly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
Thank you for the detailed response and many kudos to your and your husband for sticking it out. Sounds like your daughter has turned out pretty well, considering the rough beginning. I also wonder about what drugs and alcohol she was exposed to in the womb and the effect any of that may have had on her development and behavior.

Thanks again for the post.
Just want to make sure this comes across clearly... Children with ADHD or ODD do not all have mothers that were drinking, smoking, doing drugs or anything else harmful during pregnancy, before or after the child's birth.
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:35 PM
 
5,413 posts, read 6,661,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
Just want to make sure this comes across clearly... Children with ADHD or ODD do not all have mothers that were drinking, smoking, doing drugs or anything else harmful during pregnancy, before or after the child's birth.
My best friend has a son with ADD....she had him privately diagnosed so the school doesn't even know...and she did everything perfect during her pregnancy.....no smoking, drugs, drinking....healthy first world diet (and probably mostly organic knowing her) and top of the line medical care.

The one thing is...she also has ADD and also a brother and athe least one cousin. I don't think they have shown a genetic component at this time....but I won't be shocked if they ever do.
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Old 07-16-2015, 12:43 PM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,608,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
Just want to make sure this comes across clearly... Children with ADHD or ODD do not all have mothers that were drinking, smoking, doing drugs or anything else harmful during pregnancy, before or after the child's birth.
I wasn't implying that. I was just wondering because the child mentioned in Whocares post had a mother who was addicted to drugs.
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Old 07-16-2015, 12:44 PM
 
22 posts, read 26,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geneyus View Post
I was talking to a parent the other day, and the parent said their kid has ADHD (doesn't everyone, now?) and "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", or ODD. ODD was a new one to me, so I looked it up...


Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) - Mayo Clinic

I'm starting to think we create medical labels to make excuses for everything. It isn't your fault you don't discipline your child, and it isn't your fault he acts up. He just has "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", and the disorder makes him not do what you say.
It seemed to me like the teen was being a regular teenager without boundaries. He's picks on and cusses his parents, and they don't know what to do with him. They got onto him for something he did, and he went around moving furniture and unplugging stuff to get back at them. If you let a teen run wild without any consequences, of course they're going to take advantage of every inch you give them and try to take more. However, if you discipline your child or teen and enforce a certain standard, they won't get "Oppositional Defiant Disorder".
A coworker summed it up pretty well when he said the cure for ODD back in the day was a belt.

I'm opening the floor for discussion from psychologists/non-spanking parents who will say this disorder is real and the parents who keep their kids in line who say it is a made up excuse. Go!
"He just has "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", and the disorder makes him not do what you say."

This is where this person goes wrong. If you look at the criteria for the disorder, it's really just a collection of behaviors that a person has to have to be diagnosed. The label or diagnosis is more of a description. It doesn't describe the origin of the behavior. That can differ.

There can be many ways a person develops that set of behavior and yes, many times it's addressed with improved discipline strategies - sometimes increased discipline, but sometimes less. I have had cases where people like this person back off because of their assessment of the diagnosis, which can be the exact wrong thing to do. Each case has it's own factors that influence the behavior.

Personally, I don't get too concerned with the diagnosis. Some may diagnose a child with ODD and others may call it ADHD. I like to more specific and just define the behavior we want to address and then figure out why it happens.
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Old 07-21-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: NH
820 posts, read 1,011,468 times
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So it seems that some people want to label every child that acts up with some type of new 'disorder' and get appropriate medication and counseling. Most of these behavioral disorders are caused by loose parenting in my opinion. They are a sign of the times. Everyone is different. If your child is having a problem look to the root of the problem, it could be you.
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Old 07-21-2015, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Washington state
6,972 posts, read 4,811,404 times
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Speaking for myself, I used to be described as the "stubbornest kid that ever was". However, that label was given to me because I, also, would never give in to anyone or any method of punishment. I'm not saying I had ODD, although anyone who knows me would probably say I matched the description.

And I think we should address the anger that might be behind a lot of ODD people. The reason is because one of the things we all know is how depressed people have anger turned inward, and yes, I have been diagnosed as depressed for decades. The medication for my depression is a whole 'nother story and rant, but this is not the place for it.

The thing I'm pointing out is I'm sure there are degrees of ODD, and for those kids with a milder degree of it who do end up "controlling" their impulses, without professional help, that control may only be turning the anger inward instead of outward. We do seem to have a lot of people who are depressed in this society, just as we seem to have a lot of people who need to be controlling and can't control their anger.
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Old 07-21-2015, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Austin
7,244 posts, read 21,699,908 times
Reputation: 10013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Know Nonsense View Post
So it seems that some people want to label every child that acts up with some type of new 'disorder' and get appropriate medication and counseling. Most of these behavioral disorders are caused by loose parenting in my opinion. They are a sign of the times. Everyone is different. If your child is having a problem look to the root of the problem, it could be you.
And comments like yours above is what makes some people not want to get help. When I first saw this thread several weeks ago, bells and whistles went off in my head and I started looking into ODD, as I had never heard of it. It describes my kid to a T. He's 4 1/2 years old and his behavior is not because of "loose parenting", as you put it.

Looking further into ODD, we looked further into different things as well, and decided to take artificial color out of his diet. It's been about 2 weeks, and there has been a huge change in his behavior, mood, and attitude.

My husband took him out to lunch today. He came back off the walls, not listening to a thing I said, and it was a miserable 2 hours. My husband had a lapse of memory and finally admitted to giving him Cheetos, which has artificial color.

Did loose parenting cause his body and brain to react differently to colors than my daughter? They have the same parents.

At least the discussion of ODD opened my eyes because I was not going to "allow" my kid to be branded as ADHD at such an early age. Some kids are diagnoses too early and never get past the label. He is still very defiant to adult authority, but he's much calmer and easier to deal with since we've removed the artificial colors. More time will tell us more.
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