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Old 08-19-2015, 03:12 PM
 
Location: california
7,289 posts, read 6,867,842 times
Reputation: 9199

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When I wrestled and played foot ball I earned trophies because my team and coach voted that way .
When I participated in track and field there were others far better than I .
They deserved the recognition.
When the trophy says "league champion" or "most valuable player"
Those mean your performance surpassed every one else in that competition .
No joke we had boys the would trip on the white line ,pressured by their parent to be there, the boy had no genuine interest.
Not fair to the team, not fair to the boy.
I realize that it is well meaning to want your kids to participate, but if their heart's not in it, the team suffers and he suffers being made fun of .
My son got into base ball and did well in school and one summer got the highest RBI the team gave him a signed ball he treasured for a long time. THAT was a trophy he cared about. When he built his pine wood derby car (with a little coaching from dad) His winning car was the trophy he cared about more than the trophy it's self.
Those that put forth the extra effort should be recognized ,
but those choosing only to along for the ride , didn't earn the same recognition ,BUT, they can if they choose to work for it .
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:23 PM
 
Location: IL
2,987 posts, read 5,229,379 times
Reputation: 3111
Quote:
Originally Posted by poochcol View Post
You have practice to do that.

I come from a family of narcissists who'd predominantly agree with what you said and they are generally unpleasant, unpopular people, such that your post hits a negative chord with me. Having role-players mostly giving the ball to the best players on the team, or whoever's most open, is teaching teamwork and delegation. Also, you'll have fewer or no situations where the good athletes go off on the lesser athletes for ball-hogging.

I used to play basketball a lot and few things would be more offensive than an inferior teammate hoisting up many shots. I came to understand that I would sometimes be the dominate player on my team and our best chance of winning was them supporting me (their passing a lot, setting screens), and sometimes I'd have a few great teammates and I'd do the supportive role for them; would you agree that learning this place is good for the work place and at least sometimes in relationships?

After some contemplation, I think a ribbon would be more appropriate if we're just talking participation, on the idea that participation medals won't generally be something revered years later, and only for little kids.

I think I agree with this, if you mean not getting competitive enough to facilitate arguments. I think it's good for little kids to be taught good competitive strategy (when to pass, how to defend what, etc.), but also having fun and getting along with teammates and opponents.
I'm a little off-main topic here, but I think I got off topic because I said that I'm fine with participation trophies at younger ages, as we are trying to encourage kids to stick with something and try their best. But, I'd be cool with not having participation awards too.

Practice is a good place to learn skills, but a game is much faster and competitive. It is where you try out new skills in a more competitive environment. My view on child skill development is that at the single digit ages just passing the ball to the kid that just happens to have grown or advanced a little earlier is not a good strategy for the kids that develop a little later. All kids should work on their skills in a game, which can lead to more losses at the beginning....which leads to never getting an award. The participation award may support my approach...but i have no research to back that up.

Finally...yes, learning how to pass and passing to the hot hand is a good skill to learn. Alternatively, it can also lead a kid to rely on someone else. I want my kids to learn to rely on themselves and others.
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,217,362 times
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I only believe in trophys for winning. Just showing up is not a part of the winning spirit. You keep your job if you just show up, but that does not get you a bonus.

Our kids are in Taikwondo. The only way to get a medel is to win. Those that do not win learn that if they want to win they need to put more effort into it.
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:39 PM
 
18,048 posts, read 25,097,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawflower View Post
Yeah, I think that if your kid becomes an entitled, special snowflake simply because he receives participation trophy once or twice a year, you've probably got bigger issues than the hardware.
Nothing new, typical conservative mentality = Blame your problems on other people
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:10 PM
 
1,955 posts, read 1,745,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
Nothing new, typical conservative mentality = Blame your problems on other people
Wait, what? I think you have it backwards, Dopo. The participation trophy movement is more a liberal thing, and the backlash against it is a more conservative thing. And the "blaming your problems on others" is a more liberal thing, and the "winning is everything, losers are losers" thing is a more a conservative thing.
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:19 PM
 
Location: The Midwest
2,966 posts, read 3,900,187 times
Reputation: 5329
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5 View Post
Wait, what? I think you have it backwards, Dopo. The participation trophy movement is more a liberal thing, and the backlash against it is a more conservative thing. And the "blaming your problems on others" is a more liberal thing, and the "winning is everything, losers are losers" thing is a more a conservative thing.
I think that was the point. The idea that receiving a trophy for participation once or twice a year at most is going to cause your child to be self-entitled, instead of the actual parenting that goes on the rest of the time, is primarily one touted by conservatives.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:30 PM
 
1,955 posts, read 1,745,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawflower View Post
I think that was the point. The idea that receiving a trophy for participation once or twice a year at most is going to cause your child to be self-entitled, instead of the actual parenting that goes on the rest of the time, is primarily one touted by conservatives.
But that's a completely empty argument. It's just as easy to say "the idea that not everyone receiving a trophy for participation once or twice a year at most is going to cause your child to have low self-esteem, instead of the actual parenting that goes on the rest of the time, is primarily one touted by liberals".

That's an empty argument, and NOT the real reason for the dispute. Liberals value equality and fairness over individual achievement. Conservatives value individual achievement over equality and fairness. It has absolutely nothing to do with parenting.

And the statement that was made was the conservatives traditionally blame others. What I was trying to say is that he had the wrong stereotype. Conservatives are "pick yourself up by your own bootstraps", or blame only yourself for your problems, no one else had anything to do with it. Liberals are "its not your fault, it's society and corporate greed", or blame others for your problems, it's not your fault.

I'm in the middle, I don't care which side you stereotype. But stereotype correctly please. don't get the two confused!
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Old 08-20-2015, 05:51 AM
 
287 posts, read 325,084 times
Reputation: 728
Yeah- participation trophies are a little to "politically correct" for me as well. I remember getting them as a kid. They never meant a thing to me and all ended up in the trash. I can see their value in certain situations- the Special Olympics comes to mind as the best example. I rate these nonsensical "graduation ceremonies" the same- a graduation ceremony for pre-schoolers? Kindergartners? Grade School? Middle School? No thank you- high school and college I can see but all the others are pure nonsense.
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Old 08-20-2015, 06:30 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,566,646 times
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"Liberal" and "conservative" simply refer to the speed and acceptance of political change.
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,217,362 times
Reputation: 21885
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
"Liberal" and "conservative" simply refer to the speed and acceptance of political change.
There is a lot of change that has happened that many of us Conservatives would like to change back.

A conservative looks at a trophy and says by hard work, talent, maybe natural born ability someone will win that trophy. A liberal thinks we should all have one.

A conservative looks at a prize and says anyone should be able to work toward this and live a life of winning. A liberal looks at a prize and says anyone that shows up should get one so that they can feel like they are winning.

A conservative looks at a game and knows that there are winners and losers. A liberal looks at a game and wants everyone to be a winner.

Conservatives believe in the person, that they can win if they work harder than anyone else, apply themselves, and develop the talent that they have been given from God. People are resilient and can accomplish anything. When a conservative looks at a prize, be it a trophy, a big house, a boat in the harbor, a nice car they believe that anyone has the ability to win the prize life has to offer.

Liberals believe in the system, that the system can provide even if you don't work as hard as the next guy. You don't need to apply yourself or develop your talents because people are all equal and the system will make sure that everyone wins and feels good. When a liberal looks at a prize be it a trophy, a big house, a boat in the harbor, a nice car they believe that these are given to life's lottery winners and most people could never win these prizes. Because of that they need to make everyone feel good so they offer participation trophy's instead.
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