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Yes, and not a California thing. None of that family were born in California.
Did you look at the birth certificate I linked? Or google it yourself?
It only makes sense that if the father is John Quincy Smith, that the parents would write John Quincy Smith, Junior on the birth certificate. Otherwise you would end up with two people with exactly the same legal name at the same address. Most people aren't that crazy.
No, I did not see it until this morning (you must have posted it while I was typing). After I posted my last comment I went to bed.
That is interesting.
I wonder if part of this is generational, in addition to maybe being somewhat different in different parts of the country. In my first post (#5), regarding all of the Robert, Sr, Jr, III, IV the first Robert, Senior would have been born about 1885. And the Seniors & Juniors that I saw who changed their names upon death of the parent one or the other were my parent's ages. So, father and/or son were born approximately between 1880 and 1920/1930. Maybe, it was different back then, or at least different where I grew up. After all, I would not be surprised to learn that birth certificates and regional or cultural traditions were different 90 to 135 years ago.
In fact, the more that I think about it I do not recall knowing any Seniors, Juniors, etc. in grade school, high school or college or while I was working, no, not even one. Maybe I knew some but they never introduced themselves with a suffix. In my thirty-three years of teaching I only had one student whose "nickname" was Junior (not his legal name) and his mother immediately dropped that when she got a divorce from her husband when he child was five. I did not even have one student whose legal name on enrollment papers used a suffix.
YMMV, and obviously does for many posters.
Last edited by germaine2626; 09-03-2015 at 07:23 AM..
Just kinda curious.. Outside of Popes and Kings.. What's the most that you've ever seen or heard of a family naming children the same thing?
I just happened to be looking up Sam Huff on Wikipedia, and see that he named his son Robert Lee Huff, Jr who named his son Robert Lee Huff III who named his son Robert Lee Huff IV
Junior is very common.. The third is fairly common (often nicknamed Trey or similar) the 4th is seemingly rare.. I can't think of anyone i've ever known who has been the fifth.
And, an oddity.. My Uncle named his son "the second" rather than Junior. I always thought that was a little presumptuous. Especially since his son has had 2 male children and didn't name either of them "The third"
Henry Ford, The grand son of Henry Ford the guy who started Ford Motor Company was in fact Henry Ford the Second. His father was Edsel Ford and since the name skipped a generation the younger Henry was a Second. He was known as HF2 or Hank the Deuce.
Henry went on to name his son Edsel Ford the Second, after his father. Edsel Ford II went on to name his son Henry Ford III and as of today the youngest Henry Ford is working in the family business. Edsel is on the board of Directors for Ford Motor Company.
That's dropping, not moving up. Basically agrees with the source I quoted. It refers to sr and jr being dropped after death as being no longer needed. It doesn't move everyone up one notch.
Just kinda curious.. Outside of Popes and Kings.. What's the most that you've ever seen or heard of a family naming children the same thing?
I just happened to be looking up Sam Huff on Wikipedia, and see that he named his son Robert Lee Huff, Jr who named his son Robert Lee Huff III who named his son Robert Lee Huff IV
Junior is very common.. The third is fairly common (often nicknamed Trey or similar) the 4th is seemingly rare.. I can't think of anyone i've ever known who has been the fifth.
And, an oddity.. My Uncle named his son "the second" rather than Junior. I always thought that was a little presumptuous. Especially since his son has had 2 male children and didn't name either of them "The third"
The most narcissistic guy I ever knew named ALL of his kids after himself. His name was Ronell Gibson.
Maybe it depends on where you live, because every Senior and Junior (etc.) that I have known always "moved up" when the older person died.
BTW, I am surprised to learn that "Senior" and "Junior" (etc.) are on legal documents & driver's licenses because it was my understanding that suffixes are not an actual part of the name. Would you put Ph.D or Esquire on your driver's license or a mortgage or a car registration? Of course not, so why would anyone put Senior or Junior on those documents? Just like Mr., Mrs., Dr., Attorney, Ms. etc, are not an actual part of the name.
Because the suffix of "Junior" is what you are born with. The others are accolades earned long after birth and are not legally part of your name.
Now, I'm really curious. Did they really put Junior on the birth certificate, so it is part of his legal name? I have never heard of that happening. Could it be a "California thing"?
No, my ex-husband was a Junior and it was on his Georgia birth certificate.
I've never heard of the suffix changing because of deaths. It designates their birth order, not which number they currently are in the 'line up'.
If you were the third person to have the name John Jacob Jingleheimer you keep the suffix III, no matter whether the the first two John Jacobs that had the name are still alive or not
If you were to line up all the descendants in a burial plot, they should read in numerical order, not all Senior; that makes no sense. Each individual keeps their suffix forever.
That's dropping, not moving up. Basically agrees with the source I quoted. It refers to sr and jr being dropped after death as being no longer needed. It doesn't move everyone up one notch.
Nope. I've read the books. It's okay, as Bryan Garner (a leading authority on both American language and "legalese") points out, tradition in that regard is largely ignored today.
Maybe it depends on where you live, because every Senior and Junior (etc.) that I have known always "moved up" when the older person died.
.
My brother was 'legally and officially' a Jr., but when he grew up and moved out on his own he simply dropped the Jr. from his name. I don't think he had any actual reason for it, as our father was still alive and they got along well.
I also knew another individual who was a Jr., and was told at the DMV that he had to include this on his driver's license whether his father was alive or deceased.
As both of these incidents occurred in CA, maybe things changed with the times. When I was a young adult, I knew a couple of people who were told (at DMV) if they did not like their first names they could simply choose a different one! I thought that was kinda odd, but it worked for them.
Personally, I absolutely HATE when people name their kids after themselves or other living people. Let the child have their own personality and not be judged by the name of a III or IV, and "junior" is just a derogatory name I hate...
But those are just personal feelings.
Agreed. I'd have to have the stigma of trying ot live up the legacy of the person who previously carried my name. I'd rather be unique
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