Ground rules for 12 and 14 (will ne 15 in 2 months) year olds (attorney, games)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
With chores - first try to set up the chores with their input - let them each choose which chores they will do from a larger list. Put both yourself and your wife on the list as well and choose your chores carefully
Then post the list somewhere - on the refrigerator, say - for each person and have a space for them to check them off when they are done - allow them to choose the time when they do the chores as well. Often just this kind of system will stop the nagging you have to do because they can see the progress they make.
Hi Nana053- thanks for the input. We have a whiteboard on the fridge with the chores listed. Them checking off the chores as they complete is an interesting idea- I'm going to try that. Excellent- ty.
This ^^^ is sad. If your wife continues to place herself in this role, the girls probably always treat her like a servant. This can create a transactional approach to relationships, as in "I like you when you can do something for me." She needs to start handing over the grooming process to them, so they can be more self-reliant.
My thoughts are in red. Your girls are too young for you to have to "negotiate" these rules. They seem very reasonable to me.
I always reserved veto power anyway, and they knew that up front.
Thanks again Wmsn4Life. Good, temperate, and sound reasoning. Appreciated.
You and me both... But, sharing and reading here helps. From the sounds of it, I think we're on the right track. Having no guidelines/boundaries regarding clothing, for example, is definitely not a game plan, as some have suggested. Not in my opinion. Children, and these are children, need a framework.
Your situation is a little tougher than mine in the sense that your wife does seem to undermine you and coddle your teens too much which IMHO is not doing them any long term favors. My husband is my kids' step-father, and is a bit hands off with discipline, and so I captain this ship so to speak. I've adamantly told the kids, in fact, that I am the captain of the ship, and they are like my ship hands. In order for me to steer the ship to where we need to go-ie the goal of them being functional, responsible, successful adults- than they follow my orders. I'm open to discussion with them, and we do modify the rules and expectations at times as I'm aware of the pitfalls of being too authoritative and not letting them give their input. Ultimately though, I'm the adult who can and DOES navigate life functionally, and they are still inexperienced adolescents. They don't run the show as they have very limited life experience to do so. It would be crazy! We pay for everything and care for them, and they are dependents or 'ship hands.' They absolutely must pull their own weight or they will pull me and my husband down, and then we all sink! They must abide by house rules and meet expectations until they can establish their own house and life someday, and then earn total freedom. Your wife does need to stop doing things for them out of care and love, and teaching them to do more for themselves which is the more loving and caring act as it prepares them for life. She is doing them no favors, and could be handicapping them for future independence and success in life. She is robbing them of learning time management, organization, self care, self responsibility, and study skills which are CRUCIAL to their future success in life. She must realize that they will likely be leaving the nest in a few years. If it continues, I do think a family counselor who specializes in teens would be a good idea. If your wife could only consider some of the awful future consequences of having incompetent, irresponsible, and entitled adult children someday, she may finally get some sense of how she is doing them no favors by enabling their dependence on her. If they get married and have their own children, they may not cope too well with the enormous responsibility. You and she must prepare them for the demands of life. I think you are the one who has the better perspective and plan for your daughters, and I would be frustrated too if someone was undermining my reasonable and well thought out plans for preparing my teens for adulthood.
I have to wonder in what areas you allow your older daughter some autonomy in? By 15, we were pretty confident in our kids' ability to make good decisions. Rules were limited to safety, courtesy, and the law. Their homework was their own to handle (and they did well in school). As long as their outfits didn't break the school dress code, they were fine. And, of course, town curfews, rules about driving on provisional licenses, etc, had to be respected. We expected a call if they were going to be late. Chores were done as part of being a family member.
I think you are setting your daughters up to fail to be honest. Less rules, more independence to make their own decisions and mistakes will serve them well later on. Of course, the 12 yr old needs more supervision than her sister, and some privileges should be reserved when she reaches high school.
Maybe if there was more discussion, and less rule making, Mom would be on board.
I have to wonder in what areas you allow your older daughter some autonomy in? By 15, we were pretty confident in our kids' ability to make good decisions. Rules were limited to safety, courtesy, and the law. Their homework was their own to handle (and they did well in school). As long as their outfits didn't break the school dress code, they were fine. And, of course, town curfews, rules about driving on provisional licenses, etc, had to be respected. We expected a call if they were going to be late. Chores were done as part of being a family member.
I think you are setting your daughters up to fail to be honest. Less rules, more independence to make their own decisions and mistakes will serve them well later on. Of course, the 12 yr old needs more supervision than her sister, and some privileges should be reserved when she reaches high school.
Maybe if there was more discussion, and less rule making, Mom would be on board.
Both daughters, with respect to age, choose their friends, clothing style, music etc. They have freedom that I believe children need. The rules are there to teach them constraint and for them to learn that in jobs, schools, society, there are expectations that are expected of all of us as people.
How about rules/guidelines with independence. Your view is very narrow I think. You can't live by rules, and be independent? That doesn't make sense. Children, and adults, are free to make their own decisions/mistakes in the presence of rules.
Mattie- thanks for your input, but I'm having a little difficulty following your reasoning.
Well, for starters, your daughters think you're too strict and unfair. When kids have a voice in the discussion, that alleviates a lot of the resentment. If everybody is unhappy, then what you're doing isn't working. Some rules are necessary, but yours seem arbitrary and overly controlling, and a clue as to why your wife isn't on board.
I don't think your wife is doing them any favors either, I'd leave their rooms, clothes, and homework to them to take charge of. The makeup and heel height? Non-issues. Save rules for the big stuff.
My kids are in their 20s now. As I said, we had very few rules by the time they reached their teens. They didn't disappoint us, and we weren't in the position of micro-managing their lives.
OP, as a former teenage girl, a middle school and high school teacher and an aunt of 7 nieces (with whom I am very close), I suggest that you be more lenient on makeup and clothes. Here's the thing - *most* girls don't wear makeup or dress for boys. They do this for themselves or for other girls (keeping up with fashion). It's part of growing up from "girl" to "young woman". It is a rite of passage for girls to experiment with their own sense of style via makeup and clothes. When your daughter wears a cool outfit, she cares what her friends will think - not boys. I have never thought to myself when I was putting on makeup, "I wonder if Tommy will like the color of my new blush."
I do think 12 is too young for makeup, but by 13, a little lip gloss and blush doesn't hurt. By 15, I would think your daughter should be able to wear makeup the way she feels. I think you equate makeup with "sexualizing" a teen but for most girls, it's not that at all. For example, I noticed you don't restrict how your daughter can fix her hair. To me, makeup and the hair is equivalent when a girl is 15. For a man like yourself, you are making rules based on your own bias against makeup.
I pretty feel the same with fashion. As long as she is following the school dress code, the 15 year old should be able to pick her own clothes with the right to veto.
And most importantly, I think you should remove yourself from the makeup/fashion decision/rule making. This is Mom's job now because I think she has a better non-male biased perspective. Like I stated earlier, most women view these types of things differently than most men.
As for your other rules, they seem pretty fair except maybe give them 30 minutes or so right after school to decompress and just chill. Also, some of these "time" rules have to be different for the 12 vs. 15 year old.
I think your rules are generally good, but I would differentiate them between the 12 & 14 yr old.
in regards to clothes and makeup, I would say have them at it. I grew up as an equestrian, and to this day I don't think there are many outfits that are so customized and form fitting as breeches and a tailored shirt, and no you cannot breathe and every square inch will show. When I was 14-15 I wore usually skirts and a tank top, back then it was all tight as in now its all loose, with heels. Eh it was what was in style, and I look now and say that was cute but what were we thinking. As long as its tasteful and not showing butt, or breasts/ too much up front I wouldn't make a big deal about it.
OP, as a former teenage girl, a middle school and high school teacher and an aunt of 7 nieces (with whom I am very close), I suggest that you be more lenient on makeup and clothes. Here's the thing - *most* girls don't wear makeup or dress for boys. They do this for themselves or for other girls (keeping up with fashion). It's part of growing up from "girl" to "young woman". It is a rite of passage for girls to experiment with their own sense of style via makeup and clothes. When your daughter wears a cool outfit, she cares what her friends will think - not boys. I have never thought to myself when I was putting on makeup, "I wonder if Tommy will like the color of my new blush."
I do think 12 is too young for makeup, but by 13, a little lip gloss and blush doesn't hurt. By 15, I would think your daughter should be able to wear makeup the way she feels. I think you equate makeup with "sexualizing" a teen but for most girls, it's not that at all. For example, I noticed you don't restrict how your daughter can fix her hair. To me, makeup and the hair is equivalent when a girl is 15. For a man like yourself, you are making rules based on your own bias against makeup.
I pretty feel the same with fashion. As long as she is following the school dress code, the 15 year old should be able to pick her own clothes with the right to veto.
And most importantly, I think you should remove yourself from the makeup/fashion decision/rule making. This is Mom's job now because I think she has a better non-male biased perspective. Like I stated earlier, most women view these types of things differently than most men.
As for your other rules, they seem pretty fair except maybe give them 30 minutes or so right after school to decompress and just chill. Also, some of these "time" rules have to be different for the 12 vs. 15 year old.
Good luck - you seem to be a very caring Dad.
Thank you Jayerdu.
Some very good advice. I think you may be right about the makeup clothes. The way I feel about the reason for doing may not be the reason my older one may be putting make up and clothes. She's definitely never done the 'Hoochi' thing; that was a term used earlier in the string. No, she's just being a 14/15 year old (she turns 15 in two months). I'm sure your right when you say girls dress to impress their friends, prob more than anything. They talk about looking cute, etc. I'll definitely allow her to try new things, of course that aren't over the top etc. I also think you're correct concerning my wife. She knows she needs to allow them to do more for them selves.
I just need to be a little understanding when things flair up; try to cut my wife a little slack.
Mattie- thanks, I hear you to.
Chloe333- thank you.
mxxm98- thanks.
If I miss anyone when thanking, it's totally by accident. I appreciate everyone's advice.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
