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taking 5 years to complete a 4 year degree is sad. It's a complete sign of laziness.
I also had an issue with a capstone class. College advisers exist for a reason. If you can't get into a class like that (you should be stalking it and signing up the moment you can....), you bug them until they open a spot up for you. It's not unheard of.
not perfect storm. It's amazing how people like you don't want to credit others with success. I got my job through a combination of hard work and making smart decisions.
I also changed majors into something more profitable, but pre reqs are typically the same no matter what. It's the reason why people suggest going to a community college for the first 2 years.
enough with the excuses. you and OP daughter might have a lot in common.
It's funny how you (and others) turn a simple criticism on how you look down on others that might not have had it as easy as you have and think it isn't "wanting to credit others with success." Not everyone had the luck you had at various points down the road. Just because you choose not to believe it, don't mean it don't exist. Just because it took longer don't mean it makes them lazy. That is why I don't particularly care for people like you who look down at others and belittle them for doing things different.
FYI I did "bug" them about the capstone and they told me I had to wait for the class to be added, I did that and got in. Community college, I did that too after not doing too well my first year at a state school in NY, then I moved to AZ with my parents and some credits got thrown out and others needed to be retaken because the school I transfered into didn't accept them so my final semester was two courses I needed to retake and a science I put off. Oh and math I had to take two before they transfered. Advisers at the community college were actually impressed I had courses mapped out pretty much to the T. I'm proof that just because I had a bad start don't mean I'm lazy. But hey if you still want to believe that and think your s*** don't stink, be my guest.
I admit for fast food, I did look down at them and I still think fast food employees have problems as they can rarely get things right whether at the register or on the line. But especially for the cashier, they get the brunt of it.
I haven't read all the posts, but I agree that you've got a longer term problem on your hands than can be fixed in a few weeks.
I agree with the suggestion of family therapy -- you and your daughter, your exwife if you can get her to come at least part of the time. Also, sit down with crucial family members, family friends, and spell out the changes you are about to make in your daughter's life. Crucial will be to have your ex-wife in on the plan, so that your daughter can't play one of you off against the other. Ask for their help, and set down the rules for them about what they can and can't do for your daughter. Try to anticipate who your daughter might go to for money, as you start to choke off the supply. Will she try to borrow or beg for money from her grandparents? godparents? family friends? minister?
A suggestion for helping your daughter to get a little more real about money. Give her the task of making a budget. Have her scope out the types of apartments she'd like to have when she moves out. She can go on real estate websites to see how large they are and how much they cost. Sit down with her and brainstorm the different things that she uses on a monthly basis and how much they cost. Start with stuff that's easy to see is a cost she has (cell phone bills, gas for her car, insurance for her car) then also sit down and go over the electric and gas bills for the house you live in together.
Does she have credit cards that you pay for? Add those to the mix. Have her analyze her current spending habits -- clothes, going out, make up, etc.
Break these into individual "home work" assignments. What are your financial goals for yourself? Are you planning to retire? How old? how will that change your spending habits? Will you keep/sell the house the two of you are currently living in?
What are her goals for her life? Does she want a family? Want a boyfriend? Want to be living with you when you're 60? 70? 80? 90?
Get creative, as you're doing this -- what items can you cut out of the money you're currently giving her? Link what she can make to what she can have. That's a crucial factor that can help someone realize why they need to get a job or jobs.
Tell her that in X number of months you'll stop paying for her cell phone. If she wants to keep her current plan, how much money will she need to be bringing in each month?
The following month tell her that you won't put gas in her car any more. Have her budget how much gas she uses in an average month, based on the 2015 credit card statements (which she should compile and research). How much does she need to pull in to be able to have gas in her car each month?
I agree with an earlier poster that you need to take steps to keep home from being a warm cozy nest where she can escape from reality. If need be, put all the TVs in storage. Definitely cut off the free wifi. Charge her a certain amount to have access to your wifi. Change the passwords so that if she doesn't pay, she goes without.
Does she have a savings account? My parents took each of us to the bank when we were 10, and started each of us with a savings account with the understanding that we would be putting a certain amount of our babysitting money, allowance money, etc. in the bank to save toward our contribution to our college educations. She might have a checking account, and credit cards that you pay for -- but does she have a savings account that only she contributes to? The crucial link needs to be made for her between working, saving and getting to do what you want to do in life.
Get therapy or join a support group for yourself, as you're going to be accused of being the worst father in the world, impossible, selfish, etc., etc. Figure out what you can do to get emotional support and help for you as you'll be going through this for the next year or so, and it's going to be hard.
Think of this as being like walking. When she was first a baby, you and/or her mother probably spent a lot of time encouraging her to walk, propping her up, picking her up, dusting her off when she fell down. There were tears and tantrums involved. But letting her just sit and never learn to walk wasn't an option. She had to learn to walk to have a life.
This is the same level of crucial life lesson she needs to learn -- you need to help her, through regular, unrelenting steps, realize that the world doesn't owe her a living. You've been there for her all these years, her whole life. That isn't guaranteed. We none of us know how long we have on this earth. If you are taken before she knows how to support herself, she will be prey to con artists and parasites as long as your financial legacy to her lasts. When that money is gone, if she doesn't know how to support herself, she will either get locked into the first loveless marriage that comes along, or become dependent on a pimp or other user. And trust me, there are no shortage of men who will abuse her and prey upon her weakness, lack of education and inability to support herself to box her in for their own purposes.
And she might well turn to drugs and/or alcohol to dull the knowledge that her future is more of the same.
If she has an education and the knowledge that she can support herself if she has to, even if she gets involved with a guy who turns out to be an abuser, and hurts her or your grandchildren, she will be able to support herself and them. But without the skills of financial management, she will be at the mercy of fate.
Figure out how to get the support and caring that you will need to be able to carry this through. It absolutely will be a multi-month if not multi-year process. You will be tempted to backslide many, many times -- and you'll go to bed heartsick at the names she will call you along the way. But if you hang tough, and line up support for your emotional needs, you can still turn this situation around.
Working fast food isn't that fun. You deal with having to put in orders for people including those like myself who want no lettuce, discounts and promotions and then deal with the customers when the orders aren't right (lettuce found for instance.) Then you can be subject to robbing. I previously worked at a gas station which you do drops similar to fast food and it can be a while to do them due to the fact of lunch and dinner rushes.
This is why the smart people go to school to learn a marketable skill so they aren't working in low-paying menial labour jobs like those found in the fast food industry for the rest of their miserable lives.
One of the harshest lessons in life one learns as they mature from a child to an adult is that the world doesn't owe you a damned thing and you are going to have to work hard for everything you want in life.
Me. I'm 22. I have a 60k+/year job, so I can afford my own car. I live in a shared apartment simply because I want to save money.
Seriously, age has little to do with it. stop generalizing my generation. some of us are adults.
You are so right! When I was a teen, my first real job, was a carhop; then on to Tastee Freeze! My boss gave me a great recommendation for the telephone company, and that ended up being my career.
We have to start somewhere, and because of whatever situation our country is in at the moment; fast food is a good start. You learn so much, customer service, handling money, balancing at the end of the day, cleaning....all good life lessons. Plus, there seems to be some highly qualified people, doing entry level jobs, because of layoffs. Don't knock it. Who delivers your food when you order at the fast food places? They are supporting themselves and sometimes families with their job.
I have not read all of the posts on this thread; but I know some people think that some work is beneath them. I say get off your duff and get started. You never know, maybe you might buy a franchise some day, or have your own business. What is that Nike slogan? "Just do it!"
I see all of this and first thought is how the spoiled little brat was raised. At 22 years of age the best solution has been mentioned MORE than once. Give her exactly 6 mos to get her act together, and then she moves out. Job or no job. If she's hungry enough she will work anyplace. As far as a car insurance etc- You give her $500 when she moves out as a cushion. Nothing more nothing less. If she makes bad decisions afterwards- It's her choices to make bad decisions and her consequences for said bad decisions. At 22 there is no reason that she cannot work unless she's disabled which she doesn't appear to be. And if you cannot grow a back bone and give her 6 mos, you draw up a contract that spells out EXACTLY what is expected of her. Every single thing you can think of to FORCE her to be more responsible while she mooches off of you until she's 45. Or if she gets pregnant and having you raise her kids. And once she breaks that contract- Which she will, then you have legal recourse to kick her out. Sounds harsh? No more than enabling her until she's 45 and still living off the fat of the land. Spoiled little brat needed her fanny warmed up when she was 3-4 years of age. She learned it early on- And it's time to STOP enabling her. And if you feel guilty for making her leave- Imagine her leeching off of you for another 20+ years.
I'm perplexed by this current situation. I've been working since I was 16. I'm 30 now. People need to realize that they need to start somewhere, probably at the bottom, before they could move up the ladder.
Here's a rough draft of my employment history.
Ages 16-18: Grocery store. I bagged items, stocked shelves, cashiered, and even cleaned the bathrooms.
Ages 18-20: Telemarking job while I was a full time student. Summer months I worked at a hardware store back home.
Ages 20-22: Worked in a lab while I was a full time student. Summer months I worked at a hardware store back home.
Ages 22-24: Software programmer.
Ages 24-26: Law enforcement officer.
Ages 26-28: Went back to grad school for engineering.
Been working in engineering ever since. Got promoted into middle management last year.
OP, as a parent you should have done a better job at promoting ambition in your daughter.
At this point, it's a mess. I don't envy your current position. At the same time, you should have gotten on her case years ago.
Added by edit.
Oh yeah, regarding buying cars, my first car I bought when I was a freshman in college. I saved up from my jobs to get that. It was a piece of rusting junk but it was all I could afford.
Then in 2008 I managed to save up enough money to buy a brand new Chevy Impala. Paid for it with cash.
Some parents need to do a better job at pushing their kids AND provide the proper support so their kids will have the ambition and drive to become independent.
Last edited by MetroWord; 12-29-2015 at 09:12 AM..
I am sure this is fairly common with young people today, but my daughter (mother sent her to me when she was 15) who is 22 thinks more menial jobs such as fast food is beneath her. She has had issues with authority and does not like doing what she doesn't want to do, even her mother got sick of it so she sent her to live with me at 15. We divorced when she was 10 and I still stayed in her life and did many things with her but by 15 my ex just couldn't handle her and sent her to me.
Anyway after many issues including her seeing a therapist she finally graduated HS at 19 and briefly went to CC but dropped out her first semester. From the outset it was bad I got her a cheap car which she complained about for "being a piece of junk" (it was a 2001 Nissan Sentra in good condition) and started partying and ignoring her studies and just dropped out. I told her she needs to find a job and she did apply at some retail places but that didn't pan out so I told her to apply at some fast food places but she just says she refuses to work fast food and doesn't want that kind of job.
I talked with her mother but she is married with two teens from it and she pretty much doesn't want anything to do with her.
What can I do, just threaten to kick her out? She'd be on the streets for sure. She has also gotten a few speeding tickets and instead of owning up to it she just goes on about how the police or stupid and just want their quotas.
Truthfully, I don't blame your daughter for not wanting to work in fast food at her age. I'd be embarrassed to work fast food in my 20s too, unless perhaps it was a management position. And that's coming from someone who DID work in fast food for several years, bought my own car myself from my hard-earned fast food minimum wages, graduated from college at 21, and worked in various menial retail and restaurant jobs after college for a while when I struggled to find something better. I say this because I remember being 21 or 22 years old, having graduated college with a degree in a rigorous, supposedly "financially lucrative" major (math), working at a grocery store and then at a mall retail store. I felt embarrassed and feared the day one of my customers might be one of my former college classmates, seeing how "successful" the overachiever became after college. I had already purposely seemed out jobs at least 1 town away from my hometown, for fear of running into my judgmental, upper class high school classmates and their probable snickers. My plight became worse when people--including both acquaintances and strangers, including customers and even a few coworkers--made snide remarks that to me, verified my feelings of job inadequacy. "You're 22 and you work here? Oh, no college for you?" (said by an initially friendly, social middle aged female customer) or "Is that all you do, stir food at your job all day long?" (said by a just-turned 18-yr-old acquaintance who had a part-time office gig at an insurance agency, who initially took an interest in me until that day when he visited me at my menial food service job lol) Prior to the grocery store job or the retail job, my mom had annoyingly told me to go back to the same fast food job I'd worked in high school, in the same affluent, upper class neighborhood that had teased me about working in fast food when I was much younger. Um, no thanks. Anything but that job, and anywhere but there.
Is your daughter completely without fault? No. She sounds very immature, irresponsible, and spoiled. It took her until 19 to graduate high school? Is that because she was on the path of dropping out and/or failing out before then? She went to community college (instead of a university) and couldn't even hack it there? Not downing community colleges and the people who go there, as they are great places for career changers to pick up some new skills, or for students on a tight budget to get an education. I only say what I do about OP's daughter because I get the impression that in her case, it wasn't money holding her back from attending a bigger college, but her lack of academic achievements in high school. Am I wrong? She wasn't capable of buying herself her own car...yet had the nerve to call an 11-year-old gift car a "piece of junk"?? Yeah she sounds very immature for her age, which is saying something, because most early-20 somethings are still very immature (even though I worked hard at that age, I know I was immature back then). HOWEVER, I do not think that making her work fast food is the answer. There are other jobs that require the same set of menial skills (or lack thereof lol) as fast food, that might be more age appropriate for her. I don't think she'd stay long at a job where she feels embarrassed to be working the same job alongside 15-year-olds, you know? You say she worked in retail before but it "didn't pan out". Retail is a very broad industry. Couldn't she find another retail job, perhaps for a different chain/store or a different type of retail work? If she's into clothes, maybe have her apply to a clothing store she likes to shop in? (the employee discounts might motivate her to work there) Or if she's into the night life, perhaps have her wait tables at a popular restaurant or club? Better than retail, why not restaurant work? As long as the establishment isn't super slow, the tips should pay out better than a retail wage, which usually teeters not much more than minimum wage. Just some ideas.
Another reason I say fast food isn't a good fit for OP's daughter (and this reason might be seen as more "relevant" in terms of work ethic, etc): most fast food jobs offer little to no advancement opportunities in the long run. Yeah, someone can become a fast food manager, but that can take years, getting in good with the right people, and having the right personality and leadership potential for the job. Not everyone is management quality, but many people start off working in fast food. Unless fast food management is aligned with OP's long term career goals (which I get the impression it's NOT), I do not see fast food helping OP to build a resume or get anywhere in terms of a better job. Sorry but I don't. A better job will come with different experience, along with some college and/or vocational trade school education. As I said before, restaurant work would be more financially lucrative and age-appropriate for an uneducated 22-year-old. Doing temp office work would be lucrative skills-wise in terms of acquiring experience and office skills that can be used in a multitude of white collar "sophisticated" office jobs. If she's going to be taught that she has to work, at least have the work be something that pays something resembling a livable wage and will actually lead somewhere. What's the point of working just for the sake of working, if it doesn't get someone anywhere?
And again, I say all of this as someone who DID work hard and worked in fast food type jobs for many years, and never really saw the payout (financial or otherwise). When I graduated college, where did all those years of fast food and retail experience get me?...nowhere but another fast food job, working the same menial job alongside people who'd never worked a day in their life before. It definitely did not help me build a resume or get me anything more than another lateral job move.
I am sure this is fairly common with young people today, but my daughter (mother sent her to me when she was 15) who is 22 thinks more menial jobs such as fast food is beneath her. She has had issues with authority and does not like doing what she doesn't want to do, even her mother got sick of it so she sent her to live with me at 15. We divorced when she was 10 and I still stayed in her life and did many things with her but by 15 my ex just couldn't handle her and sent her to me.
Anyway after many issues including her seeing a therapist she finally graduated HS at 19 and briefly went to CC but dropped out her first semester. From the outset it was bad I got her a cheap car which she complained about for "being a piece of junk" (it was a 2001 Nissan Sentra in good condition) and started partying and ignoring her studies and just dropped out. I told her she needs to find a job and she did apply at some retail places but that didn't pan out so I told her to apply at some fast food places but she just says she refuses to work fast food and doesn't want that kind of job.
I talked with her mother but she is married with two teens from it and she pretty much doesn't want anything to do with her.
What can I do, just threaten to kick her out? She'd be on the streets for sure. She has also gotten a few speeding tickets and instead of owning up to it she just goes on about how the police or stupid and just want their quotas.
Well, I wouldn't want that kind of job either but that doesn't mean she doesn't need to work. How about Starbucks? There are a lot of young people there it seems and I hear they have great benefits.
Does she have any direction? Or just doesn't want to do anything? Is she depressed?
If she's healthy, and all other things are fine, then I guess ask her to leave (unless she gets a job in 30 days) and let her figure it all out on her own. I know it's hard as her parent but they have to grow up sometime.
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