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Old 04-29-2016, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Hutto, Tx
9,249 posts, read 26,628,858 times
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Having a sore bottom for a few minutes doesn't give a child PTSD or make them lose brain cells or lower IQ's. If having a sore bottom or hurt feelings does that, then pretty much everything in life will do that. Can't raise your voice, fall doing a sport, be a soldier, etc...However, if you are talking about beating the living daylights out of someone or mentally abusing them, then sure. Severe physical and mental abuse are despicable, but 2 light swats on the backside are nowhere near mental and physical abuse. In this instance I don't think spanking the child was appropriate. The mom and dad should have faced consequences.
And children scream and yell doing time out, but I haven't seen too many pearl clutchers come out of the woodwork to ban that.
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:02 PM
 
13,976 posts, read 25,867,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love roses View Post
Having a sore bottom for a few minutes doesn't give a child PTSD or make them lose brain cells or lower IQ's. If having a sore bottom or hurt feelings does that, then pretty much everything in life will do that. Can't raise your voice, fall doing a sport, be a soldier, etc...However, if you are talking about beating the living daylights out of someone or mentally abusing them, then sure. Severe physical and mental abuse are despicable, but 2 light swats on the backside are nowhere near mental and physical abuse. In this instance I don't think spanking the child was appropriate. The mom and dad should have faced consequences.
And children scream and yell doing time out, but I haven't seen too many pearl clutchers come out of the woodwork to ban that.
You can believe that if you want, and if you're too lazy to type in "effects of corporal punishment on children" . That doesn't make your opinion valid.
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:40 PM
 
1,955 posts, read 1,748,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love roses View Post
Having a sore bottom for a few minutes doesn't give a child PTSD or make them lose brain cells or lower IQ's. If having a sore bottom or hurt feelings does that, then pretty much everything in life will do that. Can't raise your voice, fall doing a sport, be a soldier, etc...However, if you are talking about beating the living daylights out of someone or mentally abusing them, then sure. Severe physical and mental abuse are despicable, but 2 light swats on the backside are nowhere near mental and physical abuse. In this instance I don't think spanking the child was appropriate. The mom and dad should have faced consequences.
And children scream and yell doing time out, but I haven't seen too many pearl clutchers come out of the woodwork to ban that.
There is a world of difference between your butt hurting because you fell or your butt hurting because your mommy hit you.


You raise a child right by teaching them right from wrong. You can only teach a child right from wrong if they trust that you know right from wrong. And if you tell your kid that hitting is wrong, and then you hit them, well they don't trust you anymore. From that point forward, everything you tell them is right and wrong is doubtful. Basically you teach your kid that you are "full of it".
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:56 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,809,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love roses View Post
Having a sore bottom for a few minutes doesn't give a child PTSD or make them lose brain cells or lower IQ's. If having a sore bottom or hurt feelings does that, then pretty much everything in life will do that. Can't raise your voice, fall doing a sport, be a soldier, etc...However, if you are talking about beating the living daylights out of someone or mentally abusing them, then sure. Severe physical and mental abuse are despicable, but 2 light swats on the backside are nowhere near mental and physical abuse. In this instance I don't think spanking the child was appropriate. The mom and dad should have faced consequences.
And children scream and yell doing time out, but I haven't seen too many pearl clutchers come out of the woodwork to ban that.
The research shows that spanking lowers IQ and changes the brain (note that one spanking may not have this effect, but the more frequent spankings are the worse things are).

Effects of spanking on kids' brains - CNN.com

Quote:
"Exposing children to HCP (harsh corporal punishment) may have detrimental effects on trajectories of brain development," one 2009 study concluded.
Harsh corporal punishment in the study was defined as at least one spanking a month for more than three years, frequently done with objects such as a belt or paddle. Researchers found children who were regularly spanked had less gray matter in certain areas of the prefrontal cortex that have been linked to depression, addiction and other mental health disorders, the study authors say.
The researchers also found "significant correlations" between the amount of gray matter in these brain regions and the children's performance on an IQ test.
Debunking corporal punishment myth #1: Spanking children for discipline does no harm | News24

Quote:
2009: The IQs of children ages 2 to 4 who were not spanked were 5 points higher four years later than the IQs of those who were spanked. The IQs of children ages 5 to 9 years old who were not spanked were 2.8 points higher four years later than the IQs of children the same age who were spanked. (Physorg.com. 2009. Children who are spanked have lower IQs, new research finds. Accessible at Children who are spanked have lower IQs, new research finds)
Quote:
2009: 17,404 university students from 32 different countries were surveyed. The analysis found a lower average IQ in countries where spanking is more prevalent. (Physorg.com. 2009. Children who are spanked have lower IQs, new research finds. Accessible at Children who are spanked have lower IQs, new research finds)
Quote:
2013: Children who were frequently spanked by their fathers at age 5 had lower vocabulary scores at age 9.( MacKenzie M, Nicklas E, Waldfogel J, and Brooks-Gunn J. 2013. Spanking and Child Development Across the First Decade of Life. Paediatrics.org. Accessible at Spanking and Child Development Across the First Decade of Life | Articles | Pediatrics).
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:19 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,809,602 times
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Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
Seems the mother agreed that the boy could be spanked at school. That is different then what you describe. No school is just going spank a child without parental consent.
Depends on the school and the school district. In some cases it is opt-out, in others it is opt-in. In districts where you have to opt-out, it is assumed that you consent unless you complete an opt-out form.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
18,457 posts, read 18,609,598 times
Reputation: 28527
Quote:
Originally Posted by love roses View Post
Having a sore bottom for a few minutes doesn't give a child PTSD or make them lose brain cells or lower IQ's. If having a sore bottom or hurt feelings does that, then pretty much everything in life will do that. Can't raise your voice, fall doing a sport, be a soldier, etc...However, if you are talking about beating the living daylights out of someone or mentally abusing them, then sure. Severe physical and mental abuse are despicable, but 2 light swats on the backside are nowhere near mental and physical abuse. In this instance I don't think spanking the child was appropriate. The mom and dad should have faced consequences.
And children scream and yell doing time out, but I haven't seen too many pearl clutchers come out of the woodwork to ban that.
Putting a child through this hell is torture which leads to resentment and can cause a person to start harming animals of bullying other children, the cycle goes on.. if this isnt terrible to watch to you, you have severe problems..A LIGHT SWAT did you say with a wooden paddle.. not where I live...Why would any educated women like these teachers even consdier this to be right... demons both of them
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Old 04-30-2016, 05:37 AM
 
308 posts, read 266,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Debunking corporal punishment myth #1: Spanking children for discipline does no harm | News24
From article you linked:

Quote:
Now, we’re not talking here about those serious assaults on children which would be classified and treated as assault under current law.

...

Hitting your wife is called ‘domestic violence’ and is a crime;
· Hitting another adult is called ‘assault’ and is a crime;
· Hitting a child is called ‘discipline’ and is not a crime.

Are children not entitled to at least the same level of protection as adults, given their emotional and physical immaturity and the developmental nature of their evolving capacities?
The article is so poorly written I cannot help but roll my eyes. First they define hitting as the smack on the a child's bottom, claim that they aren't referring to the kind of hitting that would be considered assault, and then suddenly domestic abuse, assault, and hitting a child are all equated.

Yes, children are indeed entitled to the same level -- no, I dare so a higher level -- of protection as adults insofar as assault and abuse are concerned. The real question, that your reference completely skirts around, is whether or not hitting a child on the bottom is considered assault or abuse. Many rational people will conclude that it is not abuse. If it is done frequently (e.g. if it is generally the first form of discipline for any infraction), then (in my opinion) that is abuse. Corporal punishment, in my opinion, is abuse and is made worse by the fact that objects are used. But we could debate this ad nauseum to no one's satisfaction.

As for the actual research studies you referenced, here's my take on them. And let me preface with the fact that I have formal training in mathematics, so I know what I'm talking about. Medical studies that have a ridiculously small sample size (like the one mentioned in the CNN article in the first link) are a joke. Medical studies that try to find correlations between only two factors are a joke, unless the scientific community agrees that humans are so simple that scientists can control for ALL OTHER factors aside from the two being analyzed. That's never going to happen. The best anyone can do mathematically is rule out a number of factors (for example, through the process of principal component analysis, aka PCA and related to SVD -- you can look it up if you like). That sort of study, of course, requires that MANY factors are to be included. Through PCA, one can then make reasonable guesses as to which factors are and are not significant and even perhaps compare their relative significance. As for the study that attempts to link IQ with spanking, it never took into other obvious factors such educational upbringing (e.g. types classes taken). Simply including the number of years of schooling is just stupid. I am sure many of you can recount the number of idiots and Einsteins that graduated with you and would conclude that none of you had the same learned the same. Lastly, most of the folks in the medical field have an extremely poor grasp of statistics and how to PROPERLY use statistical tools.

The misuse and abuse of statistics in biomedical research
Misuse of statistics in social sciences

But don't take my word for it (I'm being serious). People should do their own research -- beyond simply reading results from various research studies (I mean do their own fact checking; and yes, I acknowledge that this can be difficult -- in particular when we don't have formal training in the requisite scientific field nor the time to acquire said training).

Last edited by rs1n; 04-30-2016 at 05:46 AM..
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Old 04-30-2016, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Finland
6,418 posts, read 7,219,877 times
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Many many countries would (and do) classify a smack on the bottom as assault or abuse. Its not classed any differently from a smack anywhere else on a child's body because why should it? A hit is a hit.
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Old 04-30-2016, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
18,457 posts, read 18,609,598 times
Reputation: 28527
Can you just imagine what would happen to you if you went up to a stranger in a street with a wooden paddle and started to hit him or her... the police would be called and you would be accused and arrested for assault with a weapon.... A child feels helpless and if a parent is hitting them who can they turn to for help.....its horrific,cruel and criminal..why would anyone who supposedly loves their child want to inflict pain on them...
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:23 PM
 
308 posts, read 266,066 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsku View Post
Many many countries would (and do) classify a smack on the bottom as assault or abuse. Its not classed any differently from a smack anywhere else on a child's body because why should it? A hit is a hit.
This is a terrible argument. I am sure you can find equally many countries (e.g. in Asia) where it is NOT classified as assault. (Read up on Michael Peter Fey's adventure in Singapore; many Asian schools have some form of corporal punishment). I prefer to avoid the "majority rule" arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
Can you just imagine what would happen to you if you went up to a stranger in a street with a wooden paddle and started to hit him or her... the police would be called and you would be accused and arrested for assault with a weapon.... A child feels helpless and if a parent is hitting them who can they turn to for help.....its horrific,cruel and criminal..why would anyone who supposedly loves their child want to inflict pain on them...
A terrible analogy. A parent is not a stranger to their child. A child will certainly feel helpless and get mixed signals if the parent beats on them for (as far as the child can tell) no reason or for too many reasons (i.e. every little mistake earns a spanking). On the other hand, on occasional spanking (as a last resort) after receiving plenty of direction and explanations regarding proper vs improper behavior will definitely get the point across. And I would only use this for extreme cases (repeatedly running into the street without mom/dad, repeatedly horsing around in a manner that could lead to severe injuries, etc.)
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