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Old 06-09-2016, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Central IL
20,726 posts, read 16,287,003 times
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I do find it interesting how it can be legal to shoot and kill someone standing on your porch if you "believe" they are threatening to you and yet in a case where someone touches you in a threatening manner you can't even hit them. Notwithstanding silly school rules as I'd not be concerned at all about possible suspension - but in terms of a civil case I'd wonder how that would be seen.
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:06 PM
 
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School officials don't want to be held accountable. They won't take situations in a case by case basis. Discipline is much easier than to deal with the actual problem. That's what zero tolerance is. No excuses. Yes it sucks.

Another example is blocking an intersection only after someone cut in front of you and take the previous open space. The cop didn't see what the other driver did. They just see you blocking the intersection. No matter what you claim, the officer ignores it.
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,223,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3 View Post

The moment she punched- assault transpired.
The second assault.
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:51 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,684,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
I do find it interesting how it can be legal to shoot and kill someone standing on your porch if you "believe" they are threatening to you and yet in a case where someone touches you in a threatening manner you can't even hit them. Notwithstanding silly school rules as I'd not be concerned at all about possible suspension - but in terms of a civil case I'd wonder how that would be seen.
Stand your ground laws are not legal everywhere, some 20 states have laws where there is a "duty to retreat". Regardless, schools do have the right to enact and enforce policy that is contrary to other laws. Things like dress codes, academic integrity violations, cursing and so on are perfectly legal but frequently warrant suspensions.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Central IL
20,726 posts, read 16,287,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Stand your ground laws are not legal everywhere, some 20 states have laws where there is a "duty to retreat". Regardless, schools do have the right to enact and enforce policy that is contrary to other laws. Things like dress codes, academic integrity violations, cursing and so on are perfectly legal but frequently warrant suspensions.
.
Right...as I said, the threat of a suspension wouldn't worry me in the slightest in this situation.."silly rules". What would concern me as the girl and the parent would be the REAL law surrounding the matter. Why would I even bother myself over a suspension - not even worth my time and the least of my worries.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,761,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydeen View Post
Anyway I am upset because every day thousands of women in the United States alone are raped/abused/assaulted by men and very little is ever done about it. But when my daughter is all the burden of proof is on her. Imagine how many men would choose not to assault women if they knew death was a high possiblility.
Now you're really reaching.

Where do you live that "very little is ever done" about rape or assault of women??? Do you realize how many arrests and prosecutions of those kinds of cases take place daily??? I personally know a few people who have devoted their careers to doing just that.

And yes, there is a burden of proof. There is a process to follow when you file criminal charges. It's a fact all over the country, and one that you no doubt would be glad about if, for example, a girl went to the principal and falsely accused your daughter of grabbing HER butt.

We get it ... your girl is big and tough. It sucks that she goes to school with a pissant who thought he could insult her and grab her. Sure, she handled it the way many would handle it on the street, and the number of people who have applauded that decision here is a good indicator of why teachers think there's a discipline problem in schools today. Everyone blowing off "silly rules" would be the FIRST to cite those rules if circumstances benefited them.

There are other ways to deal with idiot guys who grope you that won't get YOU into trouble. Now your daughter knows a little more than she did yesterday.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:23 PM
 
10,196 posts, read 9,851,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
As a high school teacher for over a decade, I am surprised by how many people think this girl hitting the boy who assaulted her will make her less of a target. That has not been my experience. With a student who is so out of touch with high school or even societal norms that he thinks nothing of groping a woman in the hallway for all to see, I do not think a bloody nose is going to elicit anything other than some sort of retaliatory mindset.

There seems to be a notion that if you stand up to the bully they back down. Sometimes they do, sometimes (more often IME) they come back with friends, are more sneaky, and with an eye for some revenge.


As pointed out he is likely to get taunted by his peers, again making some more likely to escalate and lash out. I hope that does not happen to the OPs daughter.
My son has learned that if he tells the teacher, even if the kid gets into trouble, this is the outcome. He is in a social group that teacher 3 things. Ignore, ignore, and ignore. He tends to fight back and, in the long run, its back firing. Not only are they *not* leaving him alone. He is now considered a participant by the teachers. You know, it makes me mad. I know he didn't start it. But he really does have to learn how to ignore the minor stuff and get adult help for the major stuff. Fighting back just doesn't work.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Squirrel Hill PA
2,195 posts, read 2,580,588 times
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As a trained martial artist, your daughter does have a responsibility to use her skills with a great deal of discretion. She had every right to defend herself. However as a trained martial artist she had a lot of advantage over the scum bucket who grabbed her and should have the skill to defend herself without causing physical injury to her "attacker".

She should discuss this incident with her sensei and think about better ways to respond in the future.

It would not hurt if she were to apologise and say that while she felt that she had the right to defend herself she did lose some control in a moment of surprise and fear for her safty and used more force than she would have liked.

Thing is, if you chose to own (or be) a potentially deadly weapon, you need to be proficient in how to use it, willing to use it when circumstances require it, and also willing to accept the potential consequences of using it.

Again I am not saying she should have just taken it. She absolutely should have defended herself and made it clear to the moron that he had no right to put hands on her.

It is a shame that the school principle didn't also punish the original offender and as a parent I think you should should make that very clear to them.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:25 PM
 
10,196 posts, read 9,851,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Most of the northeast is in session for two more weeks.
Wow, interesting. I have loads of friends all over the US and everyone is out of school by this Friday. Even the NE.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:28 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,684,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
.
Right...as I said, the threat of a suspension wouldn't worry me in the slightest in this situation.."silly rules". What would concern me as the girl and the parent would be the REAL law surrounding the matter. Why would I even bother myself over a suspension - not even worth my time and the least of my worries.
Suspensions via discipline records get sent with transcripts to potential colleges. That is the reason most parents care of their children are suspended.
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