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I don't want to turn this is into a pro-anti spanking debate. But ill explain a little more..
We were going for the "treat others how you would like to be treated" route. I've seen it work first hand as a child so you cannot tell me that it never works.
I'm responding to you simply because I'm offended.. He has BOTH parents as in they're both still alive. Other than that he has 1 parent there for him and another parent that ships him off to grandma every other weekend, switches jobs every 3 months to evade child support, has 2 other children he does not see (1 he has NEVER seen), ran out on this kid while he was in the hospital (premature) because he "cant handle all this" oh and didn't even call..text..email on the little guys bday (2nd year in a row). I will never talk bad about him infront of the child and I encourage the time spent together.. in fact I'm the one texting dad asking if he wants him for the day or an unscheduled weekend... he never does.. but I try.
I'm not sure where you got your Child Development degree, but mine is from Texas State University. No, spanking doesn't work. It may work in the moment, but long term, it absolutely does not. Find the studies that prove otherwise and share them. It may take a while though, because they don't exist. Saying it worked for me when I was a kid, is like saying my dad smoked his whole life and never got cancer, therefore smoking doesn't cause cancer.
Also, all of the crap with his bio dad absolutely affects him. The situation you described is very traumatic for a child. Kudos to you for getting him in therapy. That is a great start.
If he truly does not express himself or display these tendencies with a therapist, then they should be coming to his school to observe him there. Find a therapist who is willing to do that.
When the kid makes a statement like "I'm exhausted" it sounds like he's parroting the adults in his life. I would caution against acting upon such a statement from a 5 year old.
This is a normal kid. He doesn't need therapy or laxatives. He needs the adults in his life to dial back the drama regarding every move he makes.
Currently every move he makes draws a reaction from the world around him. Unfortunately over time he will begin to define himself in terms of how much reaction he's getting. This will eventually turn him into yet another passive aggressive adult who is not comfortable just living in their own thoughts and so must continually provoke the world around them.
I applaud the level of involvement you have in the kids life. But there can be too much of a good thing. This kid needs space.
I'm not sure where you got your Child Development degree, but mine is from Texas State University. No, spanking doesn't work. It may work in the moment, but long term, it absolutely does not. Find the studies that prove otherwise and share them. It may take a while though, because they don't exist. Saying it worked for me when I was a kid, is like saying my dad smoked his whole life and never got cancer, therefore smoking doesn't cause cancer.
Also, all of the crap with his bio dad absolutely affects him. The situation you described is very traumatic for a child. Kudos to you for getting him in therapy. That is a great start.
If he truly does not express himself or display these tendencies with a therapist, then they should be coming to his school to observe him there. Find a therapist who is willing to do that.
When did I say it worked for me as a kid? I didn't... so again, most of your comment is irrelevant.
I feel the same way about stuff at his dads house too but he doesn't display any displeasure about any of it. He loves hanging out with his grandparents anyway.. he will tell me he had a lot of fun with his dad and never shows disinterest in going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by point80
When the kid makes a statement like "I'm exhausted" it sounds like he's parroting the adults in his life. I would caution against acting upon such a statement from a 5 year old.
This is a normal kid. He doesn't need therapy or laxatives. He needs the adults in his life to dial back the drama regarding every move he makes.
Currently every move he makes draws a reaction from the world around him. Unfortunately over time he will begin to define himself in terms of how much reaction he's getting. This will eventually turn him into yet another passive aggressive adult who is not comfortable just living in their own thoughts and so must continually provoke the world around them.
I applaud the level of involvement you have in the kids life. But there can be too much of a good thing. This kid needs space.
Well that's one way to look at it I guess..
His "exhausted" response is stemming from the therapist trying teach him other emotions other than "happy, sad, mad" he is now aware what "exhausted" means and uses it when he feels it appropriate.
but I do think there is some over reaction going on. When I go to the daycare all the kids are doing questionably "bad" things.. but Our kid is the only one getting in trouble for it.. but at the same time..hes the only one punching teachers on a regular basis too... so ive learned to distinguish between "unacceptable" behavior and " everyday 5yr old" behavior.
so ive learned to distinguish between "unacceptable" behavior and " everyday 5yr old" behavior.
Daycares deal with age appropriate behavior because it is part of the learning curve for children. Kids engage in all kinds of behaviors that need to be redirected and resolved.
Hitting is not an uncommon behavior, but when it progresses beyond an age appropriate level, it becomes a much larger problem.
My daughter pulled hair when she was a year old. She thought it was funny. Her friends did not. It took me quite a bit of time to stop the behavior. It was very frustrating. It was hard to deal with because her behavior was hurtful to her friends and their mothers. We lost a friend over it.
Point is --- she was not pulling hair at 2,3, 4, years old, etc.
My nephew was a biter. Got kicked out of multiple situations. Lost several friends. Thankfully, he eventually stopped.
My oldest sister used to do all sorts of behaviors at school and home to gain attention. She still does stuff to **** off my parents. Always has, always will. She enjoys a lot of attention. She doesn't care if it's negative or positive. She just needs A LOT of it. There is always some drama going on.
My parents tried paddling, grounding, no privileges, chores, lectures, counseling, threats, EVERYTHING. I really think it all just fed into her need for attention. She will tell you -- punishment did not faze her, but it affected the rest of the house! Everything was always about her.
Try to solve the problem as simply as possible. The less attention, the better. Trust me.
Nothing worked. No change in behavior.. 1 (kinda good) day and 4 super bad days.
OP, this is where I get stuck. Saying you tried virtually EVERYTHING & it didn't work over the course of 5 days doesn't sound like there's a real consistent effort. I know it seems like forever when dealing with issues in a 5 yo. But if you're going to try a calendar & prepare a plan & go over all the rules only to change to something else within the week, it's not ever going to work. There is no magic bullet. Only consistent, even, calm resolve. He's at an age of testing limits, even if there is no underlying issue this is a difficult time in his development.
My youngest had a real problem in pre-school. She is bright, engaging, intelligent, but had trouble moderating her reactions. She would become disruptive (but not physical). We worked on it at home and I worked with her teachers to come up with a plan we could all use. We discovered early on that her trigger was when she KNEW she was factually right about something, but a classmate thought otherwise. So, we workshopped saying, "Let's agree to disagree." That way, she wasn't agreeing that the classmate was right, which is where her gaskets blew. She was also allowed to step into the hallway to calm down. Her teacher would simply tell her she needed a "moment." She could also ask for one. This tactic has followed her through elementary school.
Your son can learn a coping mechanism. Help him to identify the feeling that leads to the behavior, and figure out WITH him what can work to distract his brain from the feeling--some sort of counting game (find 5 of something, 4 of something, etc) or color game (find something blue, red, yellow). And help him understand a feeling is just a feeling--not bad or good. It's the behavior that can be bad or good. Help him to feel motivated toward good behavior. What does he feel when he hits the teacher? Does he feel better or worse? Does he feel strong or weak? For example, if he says it makes him feel strong, then help him to understand to be REALLY strong, his inner good guy wouldn't ever hit the teacher, or something along those lines. Give HIM the power to overcome the behavior.
update: 3 incident reports today (after having a great day yesterday)
1.tackling his friend and giving him a bloody lip.
2.not listening to teacher when asked to quiet down while playing with his cars during nap + hitting the teacher when she took them away.
3. grabbed incident report and crinkled it up while she was writing it.
The Main office lady did reassure me that despite the incidents he overall had a pretty good day compared to what he normally has.
when I talked to him about it... he said he tackled the kid because he was chasing him and wouldn't stop. He said the teacher grabbed his arm when she was talking to him and taking the cars away and said "i don't know" when asked about crinkling up the reports.
So he has reasons for his actions.. whether they're good reasons or not is up for debate.
My thoughts... he doesn't know how to handle the other kids when they are being annoying or bothering him. His reaction to someone grabbing his arm is to punch them.. and he knows hes going to get in trouble if he gets an incident report so he tries to make it go away by ripping it up.
thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGWS
Daycares deal with age appropriate behavior because it is part of the learning curve for children. Kids engage in all kinds of behaviors that need to be redirected and resolved.
Hitting is not an uncommon behavior, but when it progresses beyond an age appropriate level, it becomes a much larger problem.
My daughter pulled hair when she was a year old. She thought it was funny. Her friends did not. It took me quite a bit of time to stop the behavior. It was very frustrating. It was hard to deal with because her behavior was hurtful to her friends and their mothers. We lost a friend over it.
Point is --- she was not pulling hair at 2,3, 4, years old, etc.
My nephew was a biter. Got kicked out of multiple situations. Lost several friends. Thankfully, he eventually stopped.
My oldest sister used to do all sorts of behaviors at school and home to gain attention. She still does stuff to **** off my parents. Always has, always will. She enjoys a lot of attention. She doesn't care if it's negative or positive. She just needs A LOT of it. There is always some drama going on.
My parents tried paddling, grounding, no privileges, chores, lectures, counseling, threats, EVERYTHING. I really think it all just fed into her need for attention. She will tell you -- punishment did not faze her, but it affected the rest of the house! Everything was always about her.
Try to solve the problem as simply as possible. The less attention, the better. Trust me.
I agree with you. And ive explained that. I asked him if he sees any other 5yr olds hitting teachers? No-- because that's what babies do. He insists hes not a baby. He was a "normal" kid up until turning 4... after 6months in daycare he started hitting teachers and it continued from place to place ..no matter the structure, no matter the teacher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi
OP, this is where I get stuck. Saying you tried virtually EVERYTHING & it didn't work over the course of 5 days doesn't sound like there's a real consistent effort. I know it seems like forever when dealing with issues in a 5 yo. But if you're going to try a calendar & prepare a plan & go over all the rules only to change to something else within the week, it's not ever going to work. There is no magic bullet. Only consistent, even, calm resolve. He's at an age of testing limits, even if there is no underlying issue this is a difficult time in his development.
My youngest had a real problem in pre-school. She is bright, engaging, intelligent, but had trouble moderating her reactions. She would become disruptive (but not physical). We worked on it at home and I worked with her teachers to come up with a plan we could all use. We discovered early on that her trigger was when she KNEW she was factually right about something, but a classmate thought otherwise. So, we workshopped saying, "Let's agree to disagree." That way, she wasn't agreeing that the classmate was right, which is where her gaskets blew. She was also allowed to step into the hallway to calm down. Her teacher would simply tell her she needed a "moment." She could also ask for one. This tactic has followed her through elementary school.
Your son can learn a coping mechanism. Help him to identify the feeling that leads to the behavior, and figure out WITH him what can work to distract his brain from the feeling--some sort of counting game (find 5 of something, 4 of something, etc) or color game (find something blue, red, yellow). And help him understand a feeling is just a feeling--not bad or good. It's the behavior that can be bad or good. Help him to feel motivated toward good behavior. What does he feel when he hits the teacher? Does he feel better or worse? Does he feel strong or weak? For example, if he says it makes him feel strong, then help him to understand to be REALLY strong, his inner good guy wouldn't ever hit the teacher, or something along those lines. Give HIM the power to overcome the behavior.
oh sorry, I think you misunderstood... 1 good day to 4 bad days is a normal week for him... not that we only tried each suggestion for 1 week.... his "Normal" weekly behavior just had no change through the duration of the trial. But I also agree with you and I will talk to him about a finding a coping mechanism.
I teach preschool. If it is happening at school then there isn't anything you can do at home to change it. The school will need to do something. Have you talked with the teachers and asked what they have tried? If it were one of my students I would completely ignore the hitting and not respond to it in any way at all. If he were a danger to the other students I would remove the other students from the classroom to an alternate location. The lack of response and lack of an audience will usually decrease the targeted behavior.
At this point, is there any way for you to consider an at-home sitter? The sitter could be socially proactive and take him to play groups, parks, etc. to work on social interactions.
How is his behavior with other children during playdates? at parks? with cousins? etc. How is he with children his own age vs older children. Does he have an older cousin (a few years) who could "take him under his wing" so to speak? Little kids love positive feedback from older kids.
WOW thanks for all the replies... I wish I could respond to them all but I don't have that much time. I have read them all though.
Just an update.. we haven't received a phone call that hes kicked out yet.. AND he had a GOOD day yesterday and heres hoping for another good one today. We also took him for the introduction to the new therapist. He told her the same things he tells us but hopefully she will be able to crack his code eventually and get into what really going on.
I have thought about the "I hit- I go home" thing so I make it a very miserable experience for him when I have to pick him up.. I talk to him about what happened then he sits on his bed/stands in the corner until dinner, then bath, then bed. So its not like he gets to come home and play... and he knows hes messed up as soon as I walk in the classroom door to pick him up..
After our talk the other day when I was asking him why he doesn't listen to the teachers he said "because it makes me feel exhausted" which I have never heard him say before so I am going to adjust his bedtime/wake up time and see if his behavior improves.
He has been evaluated for alllll sensory issues aswell... and they say nothing is "wrong" with him.. he displays no behavior to them that says otherwise.
He also has a good diet like I said she cooks homemade meals every night and we all eat as a family.. eggs, pancakes, oatmeal in the morning... we don't just load him up with mac n cheese and lunchables haha.
The only time he watches TV is cartoons in the morning while his breakfast is cooking and he drinks his juice/medicine (hes on a small dose laxative -which yes, we have also considered being a factor)
I cant see myself giving him an iPad yet... but
I used his bike yesterday... he just learned how to ride a 2 wheeler with no training wheels last week so that's ALL he wants to do now... and threatening him with bike ride time appeared to have an impact on him as he then had a good day. when he got home we rode all around town and stopped at the park so he could play... I was worn out by dinner time LOL.
I don't want to turn this is into a pro-anti spanking debate. But ill explain a little more..
We were going for the "treat others how you would like to be treated" route. I've seen it work first hand as a child so you cannot tell me that it never works.
The rest of your comment is pretty irrelevant because that's not whats happening..... I'm not trying to butter this up in anyway.. I'm posting facts. He does not hit at home and listens when we correct him. If he gets punished he takes it no questions asked... he'll stand in the corner quietly for 5days if I tell him to without saying a word. The problem is that stuff has no effect on him... its like the guy who spends 20years in prison and then steals a car as soon as hes released LOL
I'm responding to you simply because I'm offended.. He has BOTH parents as in they're both still alive. Other than that he has 1 parent there for him and another parent that ships him off to grandma every other weekend, switches jobs every 3 months to evade child support, has 2 other children he does not see (1 he has NEVER seen), ran out on this kid while he was in the hospital (premature) because he "cant handle all this" oh and didn't even call..text..email on the little guys bday (2nd year in a row). I will never talk bad about him infront of the child and I encourage the time spent together.. in fact I'm the one texting dad asking if he wants him for the day or an unscheduled weekend... he never does.. but I try.
but oh I'm "just a live in boyfriend" .... just a boyfriend who changed his diapers, read him a book every night before bed, kissed his booboos all better, takes him anywhere I go just because he wants to hang out, goes to all his social event, coaching him in Tee ball, taught him how to ride a big boy bike... he went from training wheels to learning to balance without them to popping wheelies in 1hour.
But you're right.. its not my place to make decisions.
I have also brought this up to his mother... one side of me says "let him constructively hit/fight and learn self defense... but the other side of me thinks he may run with it and then ACTUALLY hurt a teacher when he gets mad. Ya know? but yes, this has also come up.
This sounds like a kid who might be in a situation that is developmentally inappropriate for him. Schools are pushing earlier and earlier skills that are absolutely not appropriate for young ages, and it's particularly hard on boys who develop later than girls. Pre-schools are catering to Common Core standards, which in K-3 are terribly inappropriate for kids developmental levels. You are definitely not the only parent who is experiencing this struggle.
With my son, we did decide to homeschool. We kept him home until 2nd grade, which was last year. It was a very good decision for our family.
I sincerely hope you find a solution that works well for your family and for your child.
Edited to add... I think you're on the right track with teaching empathy rather than spanking. People seem to think spanking is the solution to all parenting issues and it simply isn't. I have 3 teenagers who aren't exhibiting any of the typical teen acting out, and we used what appears to be similar to your methods. You're doing a great job and I know it'll turn out well for you because you obviously care enough to spend the time to get to the bottom of things and do what's best for your child.
One of my favorite parenting books is Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. I think you would really like it and I think you might find some great ideas for different ways to look at and resolve some of these issues.
Just out of curiosity, OP, why haven't you married the mother? I mean, you clearly are a good parent figure to her son and have been very involved in his life for several years- why not make it legal and adopt him? You don't have any sort of legal standing with him and given the flakiness of his birth father, you may want to reconsider and get married and adopt him so you DO have a say if said birth father decides to suddenly take an interest and boot your a%% out of the situation.
I agree with some other posters that he sounds as if he may not be ready for a daycare/school situation. From what you posted, OP, he wasn't in a daycare until the age of 4 and that's when he began to act out. Why was he put into daycare? After reading your responses it sounds as if he does have some sort of anxiety issue and knows if he acts out that he'll be picked up by you or his mother. It sounds like he misses you guys.
Every kid I've ever known who was a hitter/biter/kicker/etc. was fueled by the attention he/she was getting for it, good or bad. Children look to their parents for reassurance and will push every boundary they can think of in order to test how far they can go and still have mommy and daddy love them. Less reaction = less reinforcement = less bad behavior.
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