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So last night came and went with the boy getting off work and staying in for the night. It sounded like his female friend had called in sick to work so that may be the main reason for the change of plans.. I don't really know at this point. He seemed a little depressed last night - he has been dealing with bouts of this and is yet another thing I worry about with him. I sure hope it's mostly situational - recent break-up, stressing about his future, etc. He tends to worry about things like me. Another thread topic I suppose.
I'm certain I will be confronted with this scenario again in the near future and he continues to approach 18 and seek out independence from me.
Where I live most teens make their first experiences with beer at age 13 or 14, and with booze at age 15 or 16. At age 16 weekly alocohol consumption is the norm. Minimum age for working is 15. Teens normally learn a responsible approach to alcohol at an early stage. With age 17 teens should be old enough to be able to make the right decisions. No need to explain to them that they shouldn't drive if they have drunk alcohol. And parents should be able to assess their own children, whether they are able to make the right decisions or not. If parents can't trust their own children to behave responsibly, then something went wrong in parenting.
If a 17 year old teenager isn't able to be responsible with alcohol, he shouldn't have a driver license at all.
Where I live a 17 year old teenager would declare his parents for retarded if they would try to forbid him to drink with friends and stay the weekend away from home. It would be considered little short of deprivation of liberty.
Well, where I live any 17 year old who would tell his parents that they were "retarded" for telling him that he should not drink or stay the weekend away from home would quickly find themselves OFF of the family cell phone plan, OFF of the family car insurance, OFF of any financial support from Mom & Dad and possibly finding the locks on the family home changed and his clothes in a garbage bag on the front sidewalk when he returns home.
Where in the world do you live that this is common behavior of 17 year olds?
Ferngully, I don't have much to add to this except give yourself a big pat on the back for raising a kid that will come to you and talk to you about such a controversial subject.
To me, it sounds like he really likes one of the girls and was depressed when the date didn't go off as planned.
Hang in there.
Why don't you have him invite the two girls to YOUR house that way you can assess the situation?
Your son is 17 years old, he isn't a toddler any more. It isn't your business what your son will drink or with whom he has sex. When your son isn't able to make the right decisions then your parenting has completely failed. Your son already works, but he must not drink? Absurd. Your son is big enough to decide about his own life.
I am sure FernGully appreciates your advice and would love to hear more about your experiences in how you raised your teenagers.
But it is actually is her business if her 17 year old son does drink since she is legally responsible for him still. It is illegal to drink in the U.S. until you are 21 years old (ignoring for a moment some of the states with home exemptions). Underage drinking is taken very seriously in the U.S. and can have serious consequences for all involved (the consumer, the provider and the parent). So yes, it is very much her business.
At 17 years old, no he is not "big enough" to decide much of anything for himself, so say the courts and legal system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukas1973
OMG, he is 17 years old. He isn't 10 or 11 anymore.
There is nothing wrong with a midnight curfew for someone in high school still. There isn't a lot going on after midnight that a 17 year old ought to be engaged in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukas1973
Where I live most teens make their first experiences with beer at age 13 or 14, and with booze at age 15 or 16. At age 16 weekly alocohol consumption is the norm. Minimum age for working is 15. Teens normally learn a responsible approach to alcohol at an early stage. With age 17 teens should be old enough to be able to make the right decisions. No need to explain to them that they shouldn't drive if they have drunk alcohol. And parents should be able to assess their own children, whether they are able to make the right decisions or not. If parents can't trust their own children to behave responsibly, then something went wrong in parenting.
Where I live a 17 year old teenager would declare his parents for retarded if they would try to forbid him to drink with friends and stay the weekend away from home. It would be considered little short of deprivation of liberty.
I am sure that is why your country is a major world power and influencer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferngully
So last night came and went with the boy getting off work and staying in for the night. It sounded like his female friend had called in sick to work so that may be the main reason for the change of plans.. I don't really know at this point. He seemed a little depressed last night - he has been dealing with bouts of this and is yet another thing I worry about with him. I sure hope it's mostly situational - recent break-up, stressing about his future, etc. He tends to worry about things like me. Another thread topic I suppose.
I'm certain I will be confronted with this scenario again in the near future and he continues to approach 18 and seek out independence from me.
I think you did a marvelous job and made the right decision in talking to him about how you feel about him drinking.
I think another conversation would be appropriate now that the "crisis" date has passed and there may be less emotion involved on his part. He sounds like a good kid and even if he doesn't give you the feedback you'd like (gee mom, you are so right), I guarantee you he is listening and processing the information.
The further conversation could be about the future and why he is going to have to make decisions on his own pretty quickly and he is going to have to understand that the consequences for an 18 year old are very different from what they are for a 17 year old.
I can't tell you how many of my kids friends messed up very promising futures through drinking, including when it was legal for them to drink. DUIs can have far reaching effects long after the offense.
Once again, I did not "forbid" - just in case that part wasn't clear.
What is your stance on the legal drinking age of 21? Do you think there are reasons why 21 is the age that decided on? This is 5 years older than the stated "normal drinking age" where you're from...
I live in Germany. We have a drinking age (beer and wine at age 16, booze at age 18), but it only applies for purchasing and drinking in pubs, restaurants and all other public spaces (streets, parks and so on). The law doesn't prohibit the drinking at home or at private parties.
It's not uncommon that parents will carefully acquaint their children at age 13 or 14 to beer. But in most cases they get aquainted by older siblings or older friends, but still carefully.
From a 17 year old teenager I expect that he is able to hold one's drink. That he acts responsible when drinking. And that he is emancipated towards his parents. 17 years old travel throughout Europe unattended by their parents. That a 17 year old teenager has to ask his parents whether he can stay the weekend away from home or not sounds for me entirely absurd.
If a policeman catch a minor with booze at a public event (carnival for example) he will withdraw the booze and empty it at the next drain. The teenager will become very angry about the nasty policeman, but that's all. Normally no further consequences.
Before teens will start with attending the driving school they are normally quite experienced with alcohol. And they are normally aware of the dangerousness or alcohol.
I live in Germany. We have a drinking age (beer and wine at age 16, booze at age 18), but it only applies for purchasing and drinking in pubs, restaurants and all other public spaces (streets, parks and so on). The law doesn't prohibit the drinking at home or at private parties.
It's not uncommon that parents will carefully acquaint their children at age 13 or 14 to beer. But in most cases they get aquainted by older siblings or older friends, but still carefully.
From a 17 year old teenager I expect that he is able to hold one's drink. That he acts responsible when drinking. And that he is emancipated towards his parents. 17 years old travel throughout Europe unattended by their parents. That a 17 year old teenager has to ask his parents whether he can stay the weekend away from home or not sounds for me entirely absurd.
If a policeman catch a minor with booze at a public event (carnival for example) he will withdraw the booze and empty it at the next drain. The teenager will become very angry about the nasty policeman, but that's all. Normally no further consequences.
Before teens will start with attending the driving school they are normally quite experienced with alcohol. And they are normally aware of the dangerousness or alcohol.
Thank you for the added information. Of course, in my state in the US, the law for purchasing and drinking beer, wine or alcohol is 21.
And, I am assuming that other things are different as well, your "typical 17 year old teenager" who does not need to ask his parents permission to stay away all weekend probably is more independent in other ways. I am assuming that they pay for their own cell phone, pay for their own car, pay for their own car insurance, pay the majority of their own expenses. And, of course, I am assuming that they are acting independent in other ways as well, such as doing their own laundry and cooking and cleaning when they are at home with their parents. Independence is a two way street, most people feel that you can not demand independence in the areas that suit you (drinking & making your rules) but then expect to be treated like a dependent child in other ways (your parents supporting you and doing many things for you).
What percentage of 17 year olds in Germany support themselves with full time jobs, have responsibility for all of their own bills, have their own apartments and do all of their own cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. so that they can have all of this "independence"? Frankly, I suspect that the percentage is pretty low.
So last night came and went with the boy getting off work and staying in for the night. It sounded like his female friend had called in sick to work so that may be the main reason for the change of plans.. I don't really know at this point. He seemed a little depressed last night - he has been dealing with bouts of this and is yet another thing I worry about with him. I sure hope it's mostly situational - recent break-up, stressing about his future, etc. He tends to worry about things like me. Another thread topic I suppose.
I'm certain I will be confronted with this scenario again in the near future and he continues to approach 18 and seek out independence from me.
Sounds like she found another boy to spend the night.
I live in Germany. We have a drinking age (beer and wine at age 16, booze at age 18), but it only applies for purchasing and drinking in pubs, restaurants and all other public spaces (streets, parks and so on). The law doesn't prohibit the drinking at home or at private parties.
It's not uncommon that parents will carefully acquaint their children at age 13 or 14 to beer. But in most cases they get aquainted by older siblings or older friends, but still carefully.
From a 17 year old teenager I expect that he is able to hold one's drink. That he acts responsible when drinking. And that he is emancipated towards his parents. 17 years old travel throughout Europe unattended by their parents. That a 17 year old teenager has to ask his parents whether he can stay the weekend away from home or not sounds for me entirely absurd.
If a policeman catch a minor with booze at a public event (carnival for example) he will withdraw the booze and empty it at the next drain. The teenager will become very angry about the nasty policeman, but that's all. Normally no further consequences.
Before teens will start with attending the driving school they are normally quite experienced with alcohol. And they are normally aware of the dangerousness or alcohol.
Are you speaking of the consequences in Germany? Because this is not often the case here in the states. There is a very good chance that a minor caught with alcohol will be arrested for it or at the very least, receive a citation for court and be dropped off at home for the parents to handle. The fallout in either situation is severe in that they will have fines and lose their license for 1 year. His car could be impounded - tell me how THAT would not affect me? It's in my name as is his insurance -- it has to be because he is a minor!
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't have kids. Parents are legally responsible for their kids till age 18, so yeah, it is the parent's business, especially if the kid is still living under the parent's roof.
Yes, the parents are responsible to rear their kids as responsibly as possible. Part of the upbringing is of course to teach them independence and a strong sense of responsibility. To teach them proper handling of alcohol, give them the needed liberty.
I know about the drinking age at 21 in the U.S. but I didn't know that some people take it that seriously. Is the ban of underage drinking really that enforced?
I don't have kids, but I was youth leader for almost 15 years. For youth camps or weekend trips we needed a statement of agreement from the parents that their children (age 14 and above) are allowed to stroll around through the city unattended and that they are allowed to drink alcohol. In all the years I had never encounter parents that had an issue to sign this statement of agreement. All parents were aware that it's important that their kids learn to be responsible with alcohol consumption. Older teenager will teach it to younger ones. That worked very well over all the years. It was quite common that teens (age 14) had their first beer at those trips. Back home they proudly told to their parents that they had their first beer.
And that is the reason why I'm so staggered about the story from Ferngully. I'm used to that teenager and their parents talk extremely open about alcohol consumption, many years before they turn 17 or 18.
I was about to come in here with my opinion, and then I realized what I was doing at 17 years old. I'd probably smack myself silly if I was my own kid. But, my parents never knew, I survived, I realize how stupid I was, and now I much try and prevent my kids from doing any such thing.
And so is the cycle of parenthood.
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