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I don't think you have a clue about parenting. You certainly haven't seen the same kids I've seen grow up over the years in the families of our friends and relatives. The kind where, even at the age of four, you know that child is a train wreck in the making--one that, when it happens, you feel terrible that it did.
I've seen parents give their children every item advertised on Cartoon Network. I've seen parents do all the chores in the household, yielding up the same tired excuses of "Well, it would take them longer to do it than I would" or "He's just too busy with school activities." I've seen parents excuse temper tantrums. I've seen parents take the kid's side whenever there's trouble at school or the kid didn't make the cut on the school team or the cheerleading squad. I've seen parents knuckle under to every excuse in the book, under the mistaken belief that a parent is supposed to be the child's friend. Almost without exception, those same parents have reaped sorrow and frustration when their children reached adulthood.
Well, the parent isn't the child's friend. The parent is the parent. Not an equal, not an advocate, not a buddy, but a teacher of life. It doesn't mean you stint on hugs. It doesn't mean you're abusive. But it does mean that you prepare the child for the real world. And all the Dr. Spock nonsense that seems to rattle around in your head isn't going to do any of that.
I will grant you that you have seen that. But to generalize and accuse every parent that is struggling with a child of being guilty of that is where you lose your point. Because, every parent is not guilty of that and sometimes kids just do things wrong, no fault of the parent.
Have you also seen parents that don't say it will take longer for them to do it than if I do but rather take time to teach them to do it and let them do it. Have you seen parents that don't take the child's side at school at a sign of trouble but go to the school to hear the school's side and side with the school. Or better yet, a parent who finds out their child skipped school or did something wrong and marches that child into the office and turns them in themselves. Or a parent who found out their child accidently busted a window while playing skip rock and marched that child to the house and had the child do restitution for the repair of the window. Or have their child write a letter of apology to someone they have offended and ask what they can do to make it right. A parent who has not given their child everything and every new toy but has allowed them to earn it by doing extra chores or saving allowances. A parent who has not allowed a child to take what they have for granted but to give back to the community through ministry work and outreaches to the inner cities and less fortunate children. Have you?
These are just some of the examples of what I have done in educating and training up my child, who I am struggling with right now and who, in another thread you have blamed me for his actions.
I will grant you that you have seen that. But to generalize and accuse every parent that is struggling with a child of being guilty of that is where you lose your point. Because, every parent is not guilty of that and sometimes kids just do things wrong, no fault of the parent.
Have you also seen parents that don't say it will take longer for them to do it than if I do but rather take time to teach them to do it and let them do it. Have you seen parents that don't take the child's side at school at a sign of trouble but go to the school to hear the school's side and side with the school. Or better yet, a parent who finds out their child skipped school or did something wrong and marches that child into the office and turns them in themselves. Or a parent who found out their child accidently busted a window while playing skip rock and marched that child to the house and had the child do restitution for the repair of the window. Or have their child write a letter of apology to someone they have offended and ask what they can do to make it right. A parent who has not given their child everything and every new toy but has allowed them to earn it by doing extra chores or saving allowances. A parent who has not allowed a child to take what they have for granted but to give back to the community through ministry work and outreaches to the inner cities and less fortunate children. Have you?
These are just some of the examples of what I have done in educating and training up my child, who I am struggling with right now and who, in another thread you have blamed me for his actions.
Mari
Oh, please. The original poster on this thread indicts herself. She's given ultimatum after ultimatum, when really only one should be required. So she's already depicted herself as a doormat for her child. And, as should be obvious, respect for the parent is the very foundation of any healthy relationship between parent and child. After all, almost all parents love their children without reservation. The child's respect for the parent, however, is optional and conditional. Yet, respect is the one thing that makes an adolescent obey his or her parents. It is the glue that holds the family together. The child may not enjoy respecting the parent. The child may even dislike the parent from time to time, but a child who has respect for the parent instilled in him at an early age will also take the parent into account when faced with situations such as these.
And, as an aside, An 18-year-old with normal intelligence who behaves this way, or doesn't make rational decisions in his or her life is not a sudden occurance, but a culmination of a lot of things.
Oh, please. The original poster on this thread indicts herself. She's given ultimatum after ultimatum, when really only one should be required. An 18-year-old with normal intelligence who behaves this way, or doesn't make rational decisions in his or her life is not a sudden occurance, but a culmination of a lot of things.
And in your book that always accumulates to parental irresponsibility, enabling and crippling. I'm not saying the poster in this thread is or is not doing that but I sure as heck am not going to sit here and judge her unless I have walked every mile in her shoe's and know exactly what she has or has not done previously. How she has or has not raised her child. As I said, I know I raised my child right, I know I taught him responsibility and accountability and independence. I know I did all those things I mentioned in my other post before on this thread, which you seem to apparently ignore, yet yes... as a sudden occurence my child is doing what he is doing right now. It's like a Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde thing.
All I am saying is that you do raise some good points, you just lose them with your accusatory tone, condemnation you dish out with no regard, and a holier than thou attitude as to how imperfect other parents are in your book.
My 18 year year old quit school and is to lazy to find a job. He stays up until all hours of the night, sleeps half the day, and will not do his chores in a timely fashion. We have given the usual ultimatums, but to no avail. We told him that starting today, things are going to change. No one can come over, no going out, no computer....until he has started showing some motivation, responsibility, and finds a job. Can anyone me help with suggestions or relevant experiences? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
You are seriously all over the place...There really is no way to respond to your logic. And btw calling someone else's child a "selfish leech" is name calling in my book - if those are the terms you use for people who you don't even know (where I think you'd be a bit more guarded in your approach) I can't imagine how you treat the people you are relaxed around.
Last time I checked treating children with empathy and kindness instead of making sure to show them all the time how harsh the world is didn't = buying their affection. And the world of child psychiatrists extends much greater further then a Dr. Spock. Although something tells me your more inclined more towards the dogma of an Ezzo (not even a real college graduate), Pearl or Dobsen .
Finally, I will say that it is possible we are all misinterpreting tone on the web, but if my interpretation is correct, well I can't imagine how I would've fared in a household like yours. Based upon your descriptions I don't think I would have grown to achieve what I have now. I'm not exactly the quiet type . And when I see views like yours espoused it makes me wonder how many like me may not have had the proper foundation & instead wound up struggling through life b/c their parents were hell-bent on power plays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
I don't think you have a clue about parenting. You certainly haven't seen the same kids I've seen grow up over the years in the families of our friends and relatives. The kind where, even at the age of four, you know that child is a train wreck in the making--one that, when it happens, you feel terrible that it did.
I've seen parents give their children every item advertised on Cartoon Network. I've seen parents do all the chores in the household, yielding up the same tired excuses of "Well, it would take them longer to do it than I would" or "He's just too busy with school activities." I've seen parents excuse temper tantrums. I've seen parents take the kid's side whenever there's trouble at school or the kid didn't make the cut on the school team or the cheerleading squad. I've seen parents knuckle under to every excuse in the book, under the mistaken belief that a parent is supposed to be the child's friend. Almost without exception, those same parents have reaped sorrow and frustration when their children reached adulthood.
Well, the parent isn't the child's friend. The parent is the parent. Not an equal, not an advocate, not a buddy, but a teacher of life. It doesn't mean you stint on hugs. It doesn't mean you're abusive. But it does mean that you prepare the child for the real world. And all the Dr. Spock nonsense that seems to rattle around in your head isn't going to do any of that.
You are seriously all over the place...There really is no way to respond to your logic. And btw calling someone else's child a "selfish leech" is name calling in my book - if those are the terms you use for people who you don't even know (where I think you'd be a bit more guarded in your approach) I can't imagine how you treat the people you are relaxed around.
Last time I checked treating children with empathy and kindness instead of making sure to show them all the time how harsh the world is didn't = buying their affection. And the world of child psychiatrists extends much greater further then a Dr. Spock. Although something tells me your more inclined more towards the dogma of an Ezzo (not even a real college graduate), Pearl or Dobsen .
Finally, I will say that it is possible we are all misinterpreting tone on the web, but if my interpretation is correct, well I can't imagine how I would've fared in a household like yours. Based upon your descriptions I don't think I would have grown to achieve what I have now. I'm not exactly the quiet type . And when I see views like yours espoused it makes me wonder how many like me may not have had the proper foundation & instead wound up struggling through life b/c their parents were hell-bent on power plays.
Yes, that's nice, but you didn't answer the question I put you. You don't have any children, yet you're arguing child raising with parents who grapple with it everyday. That would be akin to my telling off the pilot of a jetliner about the flight plan he filed with the FAA, even though I've never had a flying lesson in my life.
The fundamental mistake you make is by equating strictness and high expectations with incipient child abuse. I don't know, maybe you have a dysfunctional childhood to deal with, therefore you believe they're one and the same. Maybe you're going through the exercise of thinking, "Whatever my parents did, I'm going to do the exact opposite with my kids." But since I've never called my child anything but by their names or their pet names that argument of yours goes completely out the window. The child in question on this thread deserves to be called a leech--because that is, in actuality what the child is, a continuous drain on the resources, energy, and patience of his parents at an age where he should be largely self-sufficient and motivated. And, yes, that's the parent's fault for not instilling those qualities at an early age.
What's more, empathy, kindness, and strictness are not mutually exclusive. In fact, fairly strict parenting makes empathy and kindness more possible during the difficult teen years, not less. For children above all things crave boundaries and structure in their lives. Don't draw a line in the sand, and you can be sure a kid will keep going until he finds one. Ask anybody who's done a good job raising their kids, and they'll tell you the same thing.
As far as the child raising "experts" such as Dobson or Spock is concerned, all those parenting books went into the garbage after the first year. For I have three completely different children, each with completely different needs, wants, and limitations.
Instead it seems to be you who think in strictly theoretical terms, not having any actual parenting experience to fall back on.
it's called enabling
it's called codependence
it's really common
and there are simple practical successful steps to take that work,
it's about you changing how you intereact with him, it's up to him after that what he does and how he lives his life. You are giving him the gift of adulthood, independence, mastery of his own life.
You don't like to read what is written do you? You just make up the answers and post in response. Alot of the things you attributed to me, not only are false, but I have said the opposite repeatedly in response to you...I hope you are more attentive with your listening style IRL (especially to your children) then the manner in which you read. That isn't a jab; it is a real observation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Yes, that's nice, but you didn't answer the question I put you. You don't have any children, yet you're arguing child raising with parents who grapple with it everyday. That would be akin to my telling off the pilot of a jetliner about the flight plan he filed with the FAA, even though I've never had a flying lesson in my life.
The fundamental mistake you make is by equating strictness and high expectations with incipient child abuse. I don't know, maybe you have a dysfunctional childhood to deal with, therefore you believe they're one and the same. Maybe you're going through the exercise of thinking, "Whatever my parents did, I'm going to do the exact opposite with my kids." But since I've never called my child anything but by their names or their pet names that argument of yours goes completely out the window. The child in question on this thread deserves to be called a leech--because that is, in actuality what the child is, a continuous drain on the resources, energy, and patience of his parents at an age where he should be largely self-sufficient and motivated. And, yes, that's the parent's fault for not instilling those qualities at an early age.
What's more, empathy, kindness, and strictness are not mutually exclusive. In fact, fairly strict parenting makes empathy and kindness more possible during the difficult teen years, not less. For children above all things crave boundaries and structure in their lives. Don't draw a line in the sand, and you can be sure a kid will keep going until he finds one. Ask anybody who's done a good job raising their kids, and they'll tell you the same thing.
As far as the child raising "experts" such as Dobson or Spock is concerned, all those parenting books went into the garbage after the first year. For I have three completely different children, each with completely different needs, wants, and limitations.
Instead it seems to be you who think in strictly theoretical terms, not having any actual parenting experience to fall back on.
unless it's the weekend or he's working the night shift, no worthwhile person sleeps past eight in the morning.
Wow, I slept until 9:30 yesterday (Friday) morning, then gave my ill son his meds and went back to bed myself, because I am also sick. How worthless of me!
Personally I don't know why you have allowed him to get this far. I would give him a week to get a job, any job. If he doesn't do this, tell him a day and time that his belongings will be on the porch and he can find someplace else to live.
I would also tell him that if he has quit high school, he will be getting hid GED and then going to college or the same will happen.
You have allowed him to get the idea he is in control. He must have the idea that your family is like the Hiltons and he is like Paris, no responsibility and is allowed to sit around and do nothing.
As for sleeping late...I work 40 hours a week starting at 7am EST, on the weekend, I sleep until I wake up. Its that simple.
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. And when I see views like yours espoused it makes me wonder how many like me may not have had the proper foundation & instead wound up struggling through life b/c their parents were hell-bent on power plays.
