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After thinking about your initial post, I have a question. You have stated that your daughter treats you with a lot of disrespect, and has done so for several years. My question is, where has your husband, her father been in all of this. I had a high tolerance for back talk, frankly. But when one of my kids was really disrespectful, my DH became quite indignant and let the kid know this was unacceptable. A behavioral line had been crossed. I wonder why your DH has tolerated this. And I also wonder, if he treats you the same. Kids learn a lot of behavior from their parents. Daughter will not change if dad treat mom with disrespect. I hope that is not the case with you, but that possibility did occur to me.
Regarding son, I believe he needs to acquire some life skills. It is hard for me to understand why a 13 year old kid cannot tie his shoes. My 13 year olds had been doing their own laundry and making their own school lunches for several years. Another thing we had them do for us was to pump gas. One crucial way to enable self respect is to insist kids do everyday tasks.
I realize that he has difficulties. But you need to have him learn to function. He will have social problems if he can't do basic stuff. If teaching him is beyond your capabilities, then find help with this. He needs to learn. Many, many years ago I read an article that said one common denominator in kids who abused alcohol was their feelings of not being competent. That article made me decide that my kids would learn to do stuff.
I suspect that you have done too much for your kids. In all honesty, you should be able to listen to the radio on an hour commute with your daughter. Get her earphones. I am with those who say that she needs to take ownership of her eating style. She will then become competent in something besides academic work. And she needs to take charge of her laundry and clothing care.
And there should be consequences for bad behavior. If she treats you with disrespect, she should be grounded. Your husband should have your back on this. There is no reason to put up with the level of disrespect you are dealing with. But you have to change first. Dad has to be fully on board with the changes and he needs to back you up, and not make fun of you behind your back.
Personally I think you are trying too hard and you need to back off, however parenting advice is just WAG opinions even from "experts"
Maybe you don't want them, but here are my thoughts:.......................................sn ip................................
Having said all this, let me reiterate. take any advice anyone gives you with a grain of salt. No one knows the right way to raise YOUR particular kids. Listen (or read) think, and decide whether any given advice makes sense to you or not.
I agree with just about everything here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentingnoteasy
My kids are my priority over my career and my health. I grew up in a really bad situation/abusive and always dreamed of the day I would have my own family and how much I would enjoy them. With all of that said, I often find myself tired, sad, angry and depressed as I feel I have missed something in my parenting skills.
...snip....
I spent my childhood in hell and survived with the dream of having my own kids one day and how happy we would be as a family.
I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself and your kids to achieve the impossible expectations of having the 'typical' happy family. Think perhaps you may have done too much for your kids in an attempt to achieve those expectations instead of letting them flounder and fail (and learn from the failures in the process).
Easier said than done but life might be easier if you can accept that you may not achieve your vision of a happy family. I don't want to say settle for less, but maybe settle for 'different' than what you thought it would be.
Do you have support for being a mom of Special Needs Children??? It can be very lonely. You can feel like crap. Its tough. My 11yr old has ODD/ADHD, 10yr old Anxiety/Bipolar, 8yr old Attachment/Sensory. My 8yr old is like your son, i have to pull teeth to get her to brush her hair, wash her hair, put on clean clothes. My 10yr old is like your daughter, super smart but her Bipolar drives me BONKERS.
My advice: Get a support system. Get both kids in therapy. get yourself in therapy. STOP BLAMING YOURSELF. Your parenting didnt cause their special needs and your parenting WONT fix them!
Oh, please. She can do her homework at home. It's what -- 10 minutes to the house? Suck it up, buttercup, and do your homework when you get home. The only reason she's complaining about the music is because the music is her mother's choice and it's a way to control her. Bet you a dollar that when she does her homework at home that she has her own music going on in the background.
I will say what I think based on my own therapy and childhood........
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentingnoteasy
I love my kids with everything I have and would do anything for them. I feel like for the most part I have been a good parent (not perfect) but the best I know to be. Have you really examined your parenting to find any obvious flaws there? Our household is calm. We have dinner together most nights. My husband and I have a good marriage. We try to have fun weekends and 2-3 fun trips a year. Dad is super involved and loves our kids. I tell my kids that I love them every day and try to encourage them. I attend school events and run them to where ever they need to be. I help with homework, etc. etc. My kids are my priority over my career and my health. I grew up in a really bad situation/abusive and always dreamed of the day I would have my own family and how much I would enjoy them. With all of that said, I often find myself tired, sad, angry and depressed as I feel I have missed something in my parenting skills.
I want to stay with your past and your childhood. The therapy that I did revealed that there was an abundance of fear, anger, sorrow and endless misery in my childhood, put there mostly by inadequate, dangerous parents/parenting so I developed a huge ocean of bottled up, unhealed and very painful feelings/memories which finally came out during therapy mostly as bitter, hateful RAGE! I am not and was not a parent so I never had an opportunity to damage a chiild with my bottled up feelings and misery and, now that I'm kind of clear of those old feelings, I'm way too old do sire a child. So my questioin is, has your therapist ever mentioned that you just MIGHT BE holding in or sitting on some unhealed, unresolved old, painful feelings from early childhood that are now CONTAMINATING your life. The angry, hurt and unhappy feelings I had bottled up for so many years definitely CONTAMINATED most of my life until I entered therapy at 48!
My 14 year old son has a heart of gold. Super funny; sweet spirit. He is ADD (REALLY struggles with focus) and spent years in occupational therapy. All the testing and therapy has hurt his confidence - he is pretty self-deprecating; has trouble with eye contact. He still struggles with things like tying his shoes, buttoning his shirt, brushing his teeth. NO independent skills at all; no sense of responsibility.
IMO, eye contact and the sense of responsibility comes with ADEQUATE PARENTING more than any other factor so perhaps you and your spouse NEED to take a serious look at how you are raising him. I could never hold eye contact with my parents because they TERRIFIED ME! Everyday I have to remind him to brush his teeth and put on deodorant. He's super smart but has NO motivation to do much of anything. I am dragging him through school. His grades are all over the place. He just wants to play on his phone non-stop. He can barely fix himself a sandwich, bowl of cereal or complete his school work on his own. Super sweet and super appreciative, very loving but he's wearing me out. I work with him all the time on life skills but he just isn't interested or motivated in hardly anything.
Ask him why. Ask your therapist about why your son seems to RESIST you.
I feel like I am just always pulling him along. With that said, he did join cross country this year and is trying lacrosse, his confidence has improved slightly so maybe he will just be a late bloomer.
My 16 year old daughter is the one that is breaking my heart. At 11 her personality changed pretty much over night. She went from so sweet to so ugly and disrespectful to me and only me.
Oh, oh, what happened there? This may be where any of your (maybe) unresolved feelings are affecting you child and she is unconsciously picking up on your inner stuff even if you are not. Animals are like that as they can "sense" or "smell" the hidden elements of some folks being and might become violent or defensive or just run away from an internally troubled person. I hope this doesn't hit you like stupid psycho-babble but my own experiences with repressed feelings is very real to me so I tend to notice that in others - especially Parents.
Fast forward through a lot of drama (eating disorder, lots of therapy, dealing with her being bullied) to 14 when we finally got a formal diagnosis of OCD/Anxiety. She spent time in a residential treatment center and it "worked". She still has slight anxiety and channels her OCD in positive ways like her great grades. She is so smart, so responsible, can be funny, not in any trouble at all, very talented, very driven, very involved in her faith. But she is so damn mean to me and me alone. I walk on egg shells around her. Have for 5 years. I find her very difficult.
I'd get a therapist or counselor to help me examine what all might be causing her to feel like that about just you.
She is vegan and while I support her with that, it makes it difficult. We live around her eating. I have to really plan to make sure she is fed when we are traveling or out with others, etc.. She's so moody. Most days when I pick her up from school, she is instantly in a bad mood and I "can't" talk or listen to the radio the entire ride home because she has to focus on her homework.
If I tell her good morning, she gets upset because I spoke to her to early. Tonight I went shopping and brought her back an outfit and she threw it at me and said she hated it. She said that she had told me she didn't want anything (which is true) and that I am being disrespectful to her because I bought her something anyway. She then sobbed herself to sleep. She rolls her eye if I just walk through the room. She treat me like she hates me. I have been to a therapist to get advice on what I need to be doing to have a relationship with her. Nothing works.
Can you see that she has LEARNED (from you) to control you with her "bad" feelings? Talk to another counselor about this. It's like this 5 out of 7 days of the week. Sometimes we do have a good day but most of the time it's rough.
When we are at home neither one of my kids really like to do things as a family - never really have.
NEVER??? ...there is something missing in that! There must have been a time when your kids LOVED to do and be with their parents but if not, I'd be asking my therapist about that one.
If my husband and I suggest a family game, a movie, decorating the Christmas tree, going out to dinner - anything. 9 out of 10 times they are not interested. It's like pulling teeth. When we are away from home like this past weekend at a family reunion - they prefer to be off on their own.
Something is seriously wrong there! I'd talk with a counselor about these things!!
Between my daughter's attitude and the apathy both my kids have - many days it just has stripped me of my joy. I find myself angry - especially at my daughter.
Well that could be your own unhealed childhood anger and pain being triggered by your kid and popping to the surface - just like my unhealed feelings used to and sometimes still do!
I sometimes feel like she has robbed me. I spent my childhood in hell and survived with the dream of having my own kids one day and how happy we would be as a family.
The problem with a childhood in HELL is that it can often leave invisible, hidden, painful and ANGRY feelings somehow locked up inside of us and just waiting for something to set the off - like veterans with PTSD so these damaged feelings can pop up at any time when we least expect them! Any good therapist can explain this to you.
More often than not, her moodiness just shuts the household down. I want more for my family. I have more to give and I have done everything I know to do. But obviously I have messed up somewhere along the way. Some days I find myself just wanting to throw in the towel and pass the time till my daughter turns 18 and she can just go live her own life. I immediately then think that "No - I can never give up on my kids" and I won't.
OK, then how about getting some professional HELP to understand what is happening with your daughter to make her need to CONTROL all of you with this menacing behavior?
With all the above complaining - we do have days that are good. We do have laughs and great memories. We have a decent conversation around the dinner table. Sometimes we do watch that movie together or go to putt putt or something. My kids have good friends - they don't drink, smoke, curse or involved in any bad behaviors. My husband is a good provider, a loving husband and father. We have been blessed in so many ways. I know things could be so much worse. I hear stories of what other parents are dealing with in regards to their kids. I know that life isn't perfect and everyone and every parent has a specific set of challenges. I also see those families that seem to be perfect with happy, loving, engaged kids. I understand that it can always be better and it can always be worse.
Yes it can be better or worse, so which is it for you? Are things bearable or unbearable FOR YOU?
Soooo this is my question: Is this just somewhat normal life with teenagers
God, I just want to laugh anytime I read that kind of broad brush judgement about "teenagers"! Teenagers are often mistreated kids who finally got big enough to show everyone just how UNHAPPY they are over the lousy way they were raised. I kid is going to be as good or bad as someone has raised them to be - just like a dog or cat - and seeing ALL teenagers as this or that is both ridiculous and IGNORANT. Your kids are going to be WHAT YOU MAKE THEM! Our very ignorant parents MADE US two very bad and dangerous boys until we reached about 16, after which we took over where they left off and finished the job of becoming two VERY BAD young men! Our parents, NOT US, set up ALL the conditions for our fall into very bad behaviors and habits and we could have just as easily been like the good and honorable kids around us IF ONLY we had been born to BETTER PARENTS!
We are no longer a menaces to society thanks to meeting a few healthier adult along the way.
and I need to suck it up, stop whining and be appreciative OR do I have things to be worried about (i.e. my daughter and I will never be close and my son is going to be living with us the rest of his life...)
Just looking for any insight. Thanks for taking the time.
I honestly have no idea how to fix things there and have no actual parenting experiences to tout here. IMO, simply finding a way to HONESTLY love, respect and BEFRIEND one's kids might undo some of the damages from inadequate parenting and restore love and respect but I don't have any techniques to offer you so I'd go to a counselor for some help or read a few Parenting books or find online topics about parenting.
On our 5th teenager. They have all come out pretty well. Most of what you describe is normal or at least not-uncommon. Our kids are "good kids" The kind you are so happy when your kid brings them over for dinner or a sleepover. But we have had our trials. Lots and lots.
Personally I think you are trying too hard and you need to back off, however parenting advice is just WAG opinions even from "experts"
Maybe you don't want them, but here are my thoughts:
"I would do anything for them."
That is likely the crux of the problem. They are at the time they need to learn ot do for themselves. Stop doing things for them. Do things for you.
He can barely fix himself a sandwich, bowl of cereal or complete his school work on his own.
He can do these things. Kids will do what they have to do. Make him fix his own sandwiches. He will fuss, refuse to eat for a while and then he will fix his own sandwiches. Next, he needs to plan and cook dinner once a week. Yes he can do it. '
You do realize that 180 years ago your kid at this age would likely be not only making his own sandwich, he would be building his own house, growing his own food, killing people who wanted to kill him., ., , and you know what? he would be able to do all of those things. Yes, the very kid in your house with all of his issues - can completely fend for himself right now. You may not want him to, but he certainly can.
"I walk on egg shells around her. Have for 5 years."
Stop that. That is part of the reason she does not respect you. Be your own person not a mommy slave and stand up to her. I think this is what psychologists call "enabliing" The worst things parents do is to try to be their kids friends. You are not her friend, you are her mother and sometimes mothers and daughters have friction (all the time in pre-teen and early teen years) it gets better, but IME all daughters lock horns with mom as they get to teen year. Boys less so (tend ot lock horns with Dad). She is and will test you and push you and then try to push further. Push back.
She may be a bit old for this, but with our daughters, when they got this way, it blew up over refusal to clean their room. But they were being nasty and disrespectful to mom. Downright hurtful at times. We removed everything form their room, even furniture, rugs, lightbulbs - everything. They were left with 4 bare walls and a bare floor. We told them they woudl have to earn their things back. At first they were going to show us, but after a couple of days sleeping on the floor with nothing but a pillow (which they had managed to earn back), things changes. Never had any problems again. However any disrespect at all, - then someone was taken away. Cell phone is one of the most powerful tools out there. One day wiht no cell, and they will stop any behavior, do any chore to get it back. Cell phone is the most important thing in their lives right now. This may not work at her age, or it might. the thing you do does not matter as much as you need to stand up to her. And yes she may "I hate you" or run away from home, or . . . . and if you cave, she will continue to have no respect for you.
Realize you are no longer the center of her life right now. You are taken for granted and expected to continue to be the mommy slave while she sorts out the important things like what people think of her, who will she go to prom with, can poeole see that zit? how shold she wear her hair? whether people in XX whatever think she is a good person. You are background at this point. You are still important and need ot wath out for making her feel like she is defective, but you are background.
"I have to really plan to make sure she is fed when we are traveling or out with others, etc.."
NO NO NO NO NO. She wants special meals, she plans and makes special meals. The end. She is not going to starve. She will refuse to eat for a while but eventually she will figure out the Mommy slave is closed. Make whatever you want to make for the family. Anyone wnats special food, they are on their own.
"She's so moody."
Normal. Also disappearing into her room. sometimes for days - normal.
Most days when I pick her up from school, she is instantly in a bad mood and I "can't" talk or listen to the radio the entire ride home because she has to focus on her homework.
Then stop picking her up form school. I wen through that with my son yesterday. I drive him to school when I can. I enjoy the time together usually. Yesterday he was a snarky little snert because there was no milk for his breakfast (and he apparently felt laying in bed playing with his phone waiting for me to make bacon was a more critical use of his time than making some bacon). I told him I did not need snarky nastiness to start my day. I have enough to deal with. If he cannot be civil, he can ride the bus. He hates the bus. It is full of bullies. I really miss driving him to school. However if I allow him to be a jerk to me, it will only grow. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices to stop it and do things you would prefer not to do. Sometimes it becomes a test of stubborness. One daughter refused to talk to me for more than a year (this was post college - it never really ends). That sucked, but they have to learn to grow up, to separate and to act responsibility. They will not do that if they think they can mistreat people or they are entitled to a servant.
"If I tell her good morning, she gets upset because I spoke to her to early."
Normal. I do not bother talking to my son in the morning. It was the same with the other kids. Just make sure they are awake (flip the light on in their room and run) and wait. If they are in talking mood, they will talk to you and then it is time to talk. Otherwise, leave them their space. OF course if you want a ride to school, you better ask me for one or I am just going to leave in silence and you will find yourself with no ride (and you may have already missed the bus).
"Tonight I went shopping and brought her back an outfit and she threw it at me and said she hated it. "
Just take it back and do not buy her anything, do not say anything about it. We had a son who would not wear anything except aeropostle and American Eagle. OS he ended up with one or two outfits to wear ant that is it. Eventually we found some at salvation army. Also stop doing her laundry. (not realted, but you should nto be doing their laundry at this age, they need to learn this stuff for themselves, you are not going to go to their dorm/apartment in two years and do their laundry are you? ).
She then sobbed herself to sleep.
Normal.
"She rolls her eye if I just walk through the room."
I would be worried if she didn't.
"She treat me like she hates me."
Normal, but also that is because you let her. She may even think she hates you but she doesn't. Remember she is not understanding what her feelings are or where to direct he angst.
When we are at home neither one of my kids really like to do things as a family
Normal, but they actually do. Suggestion, take them camping. Ten when you say lets go for a hike, or fishing or whatever, they will say no. Just leave them in the camp. they will re-learn how to have fun together.
- never really have.
This seemed odd to me, but then I remembered my family when I was a kid. We were that way. However we were also very supportive of each other after moving out. We remained very family oriented for many years and somewhat still are (except my sister - she now seems to hate every living being, but until that happened, we were all close and looked out for each other, despite violent fighting when we lived at home)
"it just has stripped me of my joy."
This is very bad. My wife went through this and it really messed her up for a while. She had to get counseling. The result was she was getting her joy form the wrong place. She needed to learn to take joy in her own life, not in serving others, or only form having people act in a way that fit her "ideal" They are growing up and will move out and may not call you for a year at some point. Where will you get joy then?
"I want more for my family."
It is time to let them find what they want for themselves, rather than what you want. My wife and I go thought this a lot. We sing the rolling stones song to each other "You cant always get what you want" Your family will be what it will be. It will not mold itself to our ideal. Your ideal and theirs may not match anyway. You do not want them to be miserable, so let them be who and what they will be. At this age, yu cannot mold them. You can support them, and offer guidance when they are receptive to it, but they have to figure things out for themselves. They are young adults now, not kids.
"But obviously I have messed up somewhere along the way."
Ha. Of course you did. Did you think you are God? We all mess up and we even make mistakes that mess up our kids. We just do that best we can and have to be satisfied with that. We are imperfect. If you insist on being perfect, maybe you can trade roles with God when you die. Not sure He will let you though. I can guarantee you this much however, your kids are better off and have had better parenting than 95% of the kids out there. So pat yourself on the back.
My kids have good friends - they don't drink, smoke, curse or involved in any bad behaviors.
Great! Sort of. All kids will go though a rebellion. Sometimes the more perfect they are required to be, the worse it is. However i will have to say some of our kids are similar to what you describe, and their "rebellions" made me laugh. I was a bad kid, so, as long as they do not come close to what i was like, I am happy. We did have one kid steal a car at 14, and get a MIP at 15. He came around though. Now he is an accomplished engineering student and a national champion rower and may even get to try out for the 2020 olympics.
I also see those families that seem to be perfect with happy, loving, engaged kids.
Faking it. People always told us they saw our family in that way; polite, respectful, considerate. They do not see the bad times. They did not know Jr. and his buddy stole his buddies moms car and went joy riding and I had to wake up at 3 a.m. to a policemen at the door the night before. the do not know one daughter had an anger frenzy and threw the dresser drawers through the closed windows of her room. There are no perfect families. We all hve issues. There are no perfect parents. There are not good parents. Maybe good by comparison to some other parents, but no one is a good parent. We do not have that figured out yet and probably never will. Those who claim to be are liars on top of bad parents. We are all bad parents. I just home I am not as bad a bad parent as most of the others. I know I am not going to be the best parent there ever was, and I know even the best parent there ever was is still a bad parent. Heck, no one even knows what an actual "good parent" looks like or acts like. No parents raise their kids without making mistakes and without messing their kids up, not one. None.
A lot of kid conflict is about control. You want to control them, and you cannot, not completely. They want to control you, and they can. How completely they can is up to you. Remember the first "I hate you"? remember how much it hurt? Did you react to it? Did they learn they can control you with that?
WE are/were non-conventional in some of our approaches. When we saw the control issues like "I hate you" we tried to give them the opposite result they were trying to achieve. Rather than being hurt and upset, we would dance around in happiness loudly proclaiming to each other that "I got more I hate yous than you did"
that is only an example. At this age, your kids have probably moved on to far more sophisticated ways to control you. If they are human kids, they are doing it one way or another. They are looking for ways to get power over you. "Stealing your joy" is one. You want it to stop? Stop making it work for them.
Of course that will only stop the present method. They are brilliant little daemons and they will eventually figure out a new way to get under your skin. Let it show, let them control you with it, have power over you, and it will become the new norm and your new nightmare.
Having said all this, let me reiterate. take any advice anyone gives you with a grain of salt. No one knows the right way to raise YOUR particular kids. Listen (or read) think, and decide whether any given advice makes sense to you or not.
This is such a great response time the original post. I got a lot out of it.
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