"Everybody has a smart phone but me!" (average, clothes, activity)

[usayit]

Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life

So you plan to parent him as a 16-year-old the same way you'd parent him as a 10-year-old?

I'm not going to dismiss you, but as a parent of older kids I know that parents learn along the way too.

Signed, Another Stickler

Of course not.

Strawman argument.

This is what I said:

Yes. I don't see my stance changing with his age. I'm a stickler with keeping life practical and simple as necessary. I think unnecessary complexity in life leads to distraction from the real lessons to be learned.

What I see as important lessons to pass on to my child in life doesn't change with his age. My stance doesn't change.. same stance as my father passed on to me. I didn't put forth the argument that parenting doesn't change/evolve along the way

[BirdieBelle]

Originally Posted by usayit

What I see as important lessons to pass on to my child in life doesn't change with his age. My stance doesn't change.. same stance as my father passed on to me. I didn't put forth the argument that parenting doesn't change/evolve along the way

You've dismissed smart phones as an unnecessary complexity, based on a "stance" formed from your opinion, not on actual experience with a teenager currently in middle or high school.

The fact that you aren't satisfied with your own trac phone won't help you change your stance?

[rs1n]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

Our youngest complained incessantly from about 5th grade on. His siblings all had phones and it was just not fair.

He told us about the rich kids at school who would play a game throwing their Iphones against a wall in the hallway. If your phone broke, you were out. They kept going until the winner was the only one whose phone did nto break. Then they would all go home and tell mom "My phone broke, I need a new one"

Kinda made us less inclined to get him a phone.

He kept coming up with better and better reasons he needed a phone, he had to stay after shool and call for a ride if we forgot to come get him. He needed to contact friends about homework and our home phone was always tied up (he was the youngest of 5).

Finally we gave in about 7th grade and got him a phone. He played games on it constantly, texted uttely meaningless messages to people and giggles about it. He made about one phone call a year, if that. He may have snet a meaningful text twice as well "Can you come pick me up please?"

It was pretty stupid, but a least he never threw it against the wall.

Now at 16 he still never calls anyone. If I call him, he texts me back "Text me please" Even if he is not otherwise preoccupied, he prefers texting to talking. He mostly communicates with his friend over the internet, usually im some game format. Sometimes they do not even play much, just talk

I would have taken a different approach. The phone starts off as being minimally locked down. Give the kid the phone with the full understanding that it would be monitored. (Phones have the ability to monitor apps are used and for what amount of time.) If they misuse the phone, more things will get locked down. E.g. if all they do is play games, address it. If they continue to misuse it, then they will eventually lose privileges until the only thing they can do is basic texting and phone calls.

For most kids, the novelty of the phone will wear off after a while.

[usayit]

Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life

You've dismissed smart phones as an unnecessary complexity, based on a "stance" formed from your opinion, not on actual experience with a teenager currently in middle or high school.

The fact that you aren't satisfied with your own trac phone won't help you change your stance?

I'm not satisfied with my tracfone? I don't believe I said that. I'm just planning on going to a yearly plan instead of one that expires every few months. There was a couple of times that I forgot to refill the time. If I can get it cheaper for yearly, then even better. Other than that, happy with a combination of tracfone, ipad, chromebook for my oldest son's needs.

I do believe that cellphone with voice and text is necessary which is the reason why we have tracfones.

No parent nor teacher I have talked to considers scheduling or smartphone a necessity for a teenager. I haven't met any teenager that has the complexity of a schedule to that of a lawyer.. or similar. My wife has a somewhat complex schedule of her students/clients, family, and doctors appointments for our twins and only recently started using the calendar on her phone. I haven't read any articles that make a compelling argument for teenagers needing a smartphone. I have read articles that claim they can be difficult to compete with for a young mind's attention (I linked one) I personally as a parent do not believe that social apps are a necessity.

From the article linked:

Earbuds and brightly colored headphones are everywhere. And when I peer into classrooms, I see students tuning out their peers and teachers and focusing instead on YouTube and social media.

These are issues I deal with as an English teacher at Fern Creek. I have guidelines for cellphone and smartphone use, but it’s a constant struggle to keep kids engaged in lessons and off their phones. Even when I know I’ve created a well-structured and well-paced lesson plan, it seems as if no topic, debate, or activity will ever trump the allure of the phone.

Hence the end result is my stance. If it isn't absolutely necessary and if it can displace other activities, then I'd rather not. If they want internet access they have it home (or my hotspot) where i can monitor it. If the school official puts it on a list of materials required for class, then it becomes a necessity and they better have a good reason for it.

[Aery11]

Just read this NY Post article today - it is sobering. Kids turn violent as parents battle ‘digital heroin’ addiction | New York Post


If I were you, I would hold off on the 'smart phone' thing as long as you can.

[BirdieBelle]

Originally Posted by usayit

I haven't met any teenager that has the complexity of a schedule to that of a lawyer.. or similar.

Talk about a straw man. Using that rationale, my grandma shouldn't have one either, since she's not an attorney or ER doc or anyone else with a "complex schedule."

This ^^ quote above is the kind that reveals your inexperience with this topic. A smart phone isn't THAT different from an iPad, which you said your kids already have. Of course, it's totally fine for you to actually hold this as law for your family. But it's not OK to shame other parents as having an "odd sense of need" if they think smart phones are ok for teens.

Originally Posted by usayit

From the article linked:

The article you linked used as its primary example a school that allows phones to be carried around and in the classroom. Our school district does not allow that, except for very specific preapproved circumstances.

Most of the parents here who have experience with this have said that schoolwork is not the primary reason their kids have phones anyway.

[randomparent]

Originally Posted by CHAIN5

OP, why don't you find out from your daughters which teachers are asking the students to use their phones and email those teachers directly to find out exactly what is required for their classes (if not already outlined in their syllabi and/or the student code of conduct). Our school required parents to sign a permission slip allowing the students to bring a phone to school.

The fact is, there will always be some students without phones or other technologies many kids have. Some students come from families that can't even afford the basic supplies expected for the student (like pencils). So, what happens to those students if they don't have a phone? "You don't have a phone, so automatic "F" for you!"

This. I live in a very affluent school district, and I can't think of any classes in which teachers required smartphones. If anything, they were always trying to get the kids to put the darn things away. There were a few teachers who used an app called Kahoot, but if kids did not have a smartphone, they just used one of the school laptops to access the associated website.

BTW, we did not provide smartphones to our children until they could fund the data plans themselves, and that happened around age sixteen or so. And, yes, it was sometimes painful for them, which motivated them to figure out a way to make the money to pay for it. Our youngest is 15 and a high school freshman. He still doesn't have one, and that is perfectly okay with me.

[BirdieBelle]

Originally Posted by Aery11

Just read this NY Post article today - it is sobering. Kids turn violent as parents battle ‘digital heroin’ addiction | New York Post


If I were you, I would hold off on the 'smart phone' thing as long as you can.

Once again, it's easy to blame the device when the mom quoted in the article admits that she used the iPad as a bargaining tool with her son, who was using screens as early as 1st grade.

It's fearmongering at its best. Combine inexperienced, nervous parents with new and rapidly changing technology, throw in really, really scary words like, "digital heroin," "psychosis," and "catatonic stupor," and you have guaranteed clickbait.

The digital/dopamine connection is a real thing, but the OP has already held off longer than most parents these days. She's done more than enough to keep her girls from even coming close to anything described in that article.

[usayit]

Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life

Talk about a straw man.

Straw man argument is arguing a point that was never made.

In this case it was made in another post. It was argued in another post that scheduling for a teenager made a smartphone a necessity. You questioned my dismissal of a smartphone as unnecessary complexity... I am reiterating what has already been said to build the basis for my belief that smartphones are an unnecessary complexity.

You cannot ask me to explain my stance then dismiss my response as a straw man argument... because I'm not proposing an argument (statement). I am making a refute.

Your previous post was a argument/statement i never put forth; that parenting doesn't change. Hence it is a straw man argument.

The article you linked used as its primary example a school that allows phones to be carried around and in the classroom. Our school district does not allow that, except for very specific preapproved circumstances.

Most of the parents here who have experience with this have said that schoolwork is not the primary reason their kids have phones anyway.

So that reinforces my stance. If the school doesn't allow it and the school work doesn't require it then it isn't a necessity. Therefore, in my viewpoint, a smartphone's features do not outweigh the complexity and distraction it poses to a young mind.

[shyguylh]

Originally Posted by Marlow

Get the girls smart phones. You're trying to turn back the clock and you just can't do it. Smart phones aren't luxuries any more. They're tools.

Amen, double-triple and quadruple rep.

My stance may surprise some of you given other opinions I've expressed about parenting, but as kids mature (vs when they're toddlers etc) I respect their views more now that they're more enlightened about things and are coming into their own. Also, yes, I lean towards the "they're tools" and (my words) "it's the year 2016" (or your "you're trying to turn back the clock" comment) stance of things.

I'm coming from two angles (a) respecting a child's view as they mature and come into their own, as a 14 year old is doing and (b) I'm a stanch advocate of smartphone acceptance and absolutely cannot STAND all of this hatred for smartphones you see in certain places. The latter may well be the angle I cover more here.

How many times do people say, with respect to smartphones, "we used to get along fine without them." Um, so? We also used to "get along fine" with records that warped, "ice houses," horse and buggies, "got along fine" with no air conditioning, polio vaccination shots, GPS, paved roads, electricity--need I go on? So "we used to get along fine without them" is irrelevant to me.

I'm in my 40s vs a teenager, but I will say that I use my smartphone for all of these things:

{*} Logging my debit card transactions in my check register app
{*} Checking my bank balance online
{*} Shopping and to-do lists
{*} My kids' SS numbers, doctor's appointments, recipes, account number for electricity service at home
{*} Name of a product I saw that I want to check out later, then set a reminder so it "prompts" me when I'm off work
{*} "Egg timer" for timing breaks or for cooking something in the oven, alarm clock for getting up
{*} Reading Wikipedia (I used to read hardback encyclopedias all the time as a child)
{*} Looking up a phone number, address, getting directions
{*} Saving the combination to the safe at work

I've had smartphones since Jan 2008, started out with a Palm Treo 650, then Blackberry, then Android in 2011. Having used PDAs a bit prior to this, smartphones to me were NOT a gaming or photo-taking device, they were for organizing things. I use the "PDA" functions a lot as I elaborated on in the bullet points, and so I can totally agree with the idea that smartphones are a person's "organizer" anymore. It's most naturally how people organize and keep up with much of their life in the year 2016, and people who gripe about them sound like relics from the stone ages to me.

It irritates me when people think it's still 1980 and gripe about phones. They see me with mine out logging my debit card transactions and assume that I'm playing Angry Birds or texting my "BFF" about a sports score. One job would fire you if you were seen on your phone EVER even during "down time," even if you were texting your babysitter or your ride (as many of us in fact were), yet let someone take a "smoke break," read the paper or hang around the water cooler being just as idle and that's OK. I'm a productive worker and even think to turn my phone on vibrate while at work using a "timed" profile that quiets it for that period but then automatically turns the sounds back on after the time has elapsed, and I can't being treated like I'm in grade school with respect to such things.

It also makes perfect sense that a 14 year old who's coming into their own is going to have such needs coming up. So if one is concerned about safety, OK. If the school has a rule and you figure the phone is going to be confiscated so why waste the money, OK. If your child is apt to break or lose it, OK. But to just dismiss it with "gosh darn, we used to get along fine without them, I swear people are so 'addicted' to those stupid things"--please, just stop it already. You sound like the older people in Elvis Presley's day denouncing how "dirty" his music was. This is the year 2016, this is not "Little House on The Prairie" and your daughter is not Laura Ingallis Wilder (although I did love the "free range" parenting they did). I'm not rubbing sticks together to start a wood fire, I either turn on the electric heat or use a "clicker" lighter to light up my propane heater.

In suggesting that your 14 year old doesn't need a smartphone because, gosh darn, we got along fine without them in the 80s or 90s, it makes you sound totally out of touch and your child is going to just roll their eyes at you thinking, correctly in that scenario, that you're a relic from the stone ages who's just totally unaware of anything about their life and their legitimate concerns.

Also, if I can go down this tangent just for a bit--if a smartphone is purchased, there are many prepaid options outside of Straight Talk and Tracfone. Why so many people think prepaid plans start and end with Tracfone or Straight Talk is beyond me. There are TONS of carriers out there--Virgin Mobile, T-Mobile, MetroPCS, Boost Mobile, Cricket, and besides that AT&T and Verizon prepaid aren't as outrageous as they used to be.

Good luck whatever you decide.