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Oh, no! One of my favorite topics just when I have really no time. A quickie, I'll contribute more later if this thread is still going on late tomorrow.
The rates of alcohol abuse are higher in Europe than anywhere else in the world, particularly northern Europe. Kids are more likely to get drunk there than in any other part of the world. There are also high rates of alcohol-related illnesses in many European countries. WHO/Europe | Data and statistics http://resources.prev.org/documents/ESPAD.pdf
Europeans, and I've know a lot, are too free with alcohol and don't take alcoholism as seriously as Americans do.
This conversation reminds me of an HBO commercial I saw awhile back where either teens or really young looking adults were watching extremely violent and sex (straight out nudity) with their parents and it was pointing out how awkward it is. I think there are some lines you don't cross. I think that's what separates us from apes and other animals that can make tools. That we have societies and morals.
Thanks for the laughs! It is actually northern and western Europe that have the big drinking problems, which you'd see if you opened my links instead of believing in all these "urban legends".
Perhaps you could trouble yourself to open this link: http://resources.prev.org/documents/ESPAD.pdf
The only country where teens drink less than in the US is Iceland, and the difference is minor. By contrast, 15-16 year olds in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the UK are more than twice as likely as same age kids in the US to have drunk in the past 30 days. Kids in Finland, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain are 1 1/2 times as likely, and Norway is close to that.
As far as intoxication at 15-16, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Norway, Spain and the UK have higher levels than the US, with Denmark and the UK much higher.
Regarding intoxication before age 13, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Norway, Sweden and the UK have higher levels than the US, with Austria, Denmark, Finland, Ireland and the UK at least twice the US level. Denmark and The UK are actually 3X the US level. 13!
Why wouldn't drinking would be more prevalent among teens in countries where it's legal, or at least more socially acceptable? That seems like common sense to me, and I haven't seen anyone argue that teens in those countries don't drink.
Kind of like it would be common sense to post that say, rates of marijuana use/getting high via marijuana are higher in CA, NV, WA, DC, MA, CO, ME, OK, and AK (states where marijuana is legal) or in a place like Asheville or Austin, than it is in states/areas where it's not legal or socially acceptable. Umm, of course!
Thanks for the laughs! It is actually northern and western Europe that have the big drinking problems, which you'd see if you opened my links instead of believing in all these "urban legends".
Perhaps you could trouble yourself to open this link: http://resources.prev.org/documents/ESPAD.pdf
The only country where teens drink less than in the US is Iceland, and the difference is minor. By contrast, 15-16 year olds in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the UK are more than twice as likely as same age kids in the US to have drunk in the past 30 days. Kids in Finland, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain are 1 1/2 times as likely, and Norway is close to that.
As far as intoxication at 15-16, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Norway, Spain and the UK have higher levels than the US, with Denmark and the UK much higher.
Regarding intoxication before age 13, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Norway, Sweden and the UK have higher levels than the US, with Austria, Denmark, Finland, Ireland and the UK at least twice the US level. Denmark and The UK are actually 3X the US level. 13!
Its pretty obvious that 15-16 year old teens in Europe are more likely to have drunk because they are closer to the drinking age than US teens (so quite likely to have friends old enough to buy, or in some countries be old enough already) - what are the percentages of 19-20 year olds in the US drinking?
According to the Center for Disease Control under-aged children in the U.S. drink eleven percent of the alcohol at a cost of $24 billion annually. I am unsure what percent of teens that is but facts can be found at the CDC and National Institute on Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse Center sites.
As research is done we are learning more about the dangers of alcohol to young bodies. The human brain is not fully mature until sometime around twenty-four years of age.
In fact new mental health studies coming out of the Netherlands indicate they are rethinking their casual attitude about cannabis use.
Edited to add: Since 1980, when about ten-percent of the U.S. population was having problems with mood-altering substances, we have increased to nearly thirty-percent of our population having substance abuse problems. I would suggest that increased leisure time and a more casual attitude about alcohol use encouraged by massive advertising play a part. But I firmly believe that it is the genetic inclination to alcoholism that is the main problem.
Why wouldn't drinking would be more prevalent among teens in countries where it's legal, or at least more socially acceptable? That seems like common sense to me, and I haven't seen anyone argue that teens in those countries don't drink.
Kind of like it would be common sense to post that say, rates of marijuana use/getting high via marijuana are higher in CA, NV, WA, DC, MA, CO, ME, OK, and AK (states where marijuana is legal) or in a place like Asheville or Austin, than it is in states/areas where it's not legal or socially acceptable. Umm, of course!
You tell me! You and your compatriots have been saying drinking age doesn't matter, that US kids drink more d/t the "forbidden fruit" theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsku
Its pretty obvious that 15-16 year old teens in Europe are more likely to have drunk because they are closer to the drinking age than US teens (so quite likely to have friends old enough to buy, or in some countries be old enough already) - what are the percentages of 19-20 year olds in the US drinking?
I actually agree with you! That's been my point all along, that lower drinking age = more drinking. It's been my observation that whatever the drinking age is, the actual drinking age is about 3 years younger, due to older friends being able to procure alcohol, parents thinking if they're going to do it at 18, why not at 15, etc.
Looked at the 2014 WHO report on alcohol and the only countries with the least risky drinking patterns (of countries where alcohol consumption is normal i.e. not Muslim countries) are ones in Southern and Western Europe (i.e. Mediterranean countries) so they must be doing something right.
I don't plan on waiting until they're 21. No way am I going to just turn them loose at 21 with no prior knowledge or experience with responsible consumption of alcohol and hope they just luck into figuring it out on their own.
Looked at the 2014 WHO report on alcohol and the only countries with the least risky drinking patterns (of countries where alcohol consumption is normal i.e. not Muslim countries) are ones in Southern and Western Europe (i.e. Mediterranean countries) so they must be doing something right.
In Europe, only Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Italy, Greece, Bosnia/Herzegovina, and Greece consume less than the US, as far as I can tell, using your criteria. Finland, the UK, and the rest of continental Europe consume more. It looks like virtually all of the Asian and African countries, plus the Central and South American countries consume less; Australia and New Zealand consume more; Canada consumes a little less. WHO | World Health Organization
Another take on whether allowing underage kids to try alcohol contributes to more drinking later on
Quote:
Dr. Wadolowski is concluding another study that looked at how the seventh graders who had had sips of alcohol behaved over the next year. It found that those who progressed to drinking whole drinks were more likely to have problem behaviors, friends who drank, and less parental monitoring; these factors were more important than the history of sipping. And the risk factors are interrelated.
As for the original question, I think that acknowledging someone's birthday is pretty common among family members. And I think that marking a 21st birthday with a drink is a pretty common milestone as well. I'm not sure I would have consciously listed it as something I'm looking forward to, but if I think about it, then yes, I could see anticipating taking my son out to dinner to celebrate his 21st, and buying him a legal drink as part of that celebration, if he's interested. Based on my own upbringing and lack of any history of alcohol (or drug) abuse in the family, I have offered my son sips of alcohol when it's being served during religious observances or other celebratory events. He currently (at age 12) has no interest at all and finds even the aroma of alcohol very off putting. I assume that will change as some point but who knows.
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