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I was referring to the general "raise them and kick them out" philosophy that lots of people seem to have.
Lots of 20 somethings live with their parents, its the reality of the current situation many young people are in.
In your case, maybe your son is a lazy bum, but based on the story you gave us on page one, it doesn't seem like you have been consistent in your message or helped him transition. Maybe you two don't get along and he should move out, it is your home after all, but you seem to be treating this like a divorce.
I don't subscribe to "raise them and kick them out". I have every intention of providing a home for my children regardless of age. At the same time, I need to see that there is a desire to be independent. Short of having a medical problem, it's unfathomable to me to be dependent on anyone. Moving back into my mother's house would only be an option if I literally was about to be a skid row bum. i see far too many younger people content to just coast through life because they feel they have a safety net. This is especially true of those who are born to middle-upper middle class parents. They just don't feel the urgency to take off on their own. I admit that I can't relate because I was (and still am) very independent. On my own accord, I moved out the moment I had my first job. My first job didn't pay a whole lot, but it was a start and I wanted to prove that I could make it on my own. I would have even roomed with other girls. Nowadays, young people want to start out already at the top. Instead of buying the $100k fixer as a starter home, they want to have the $500k first home. They want the six figure job at 25. That's nice and all, but along the way I think something was lost. Shall I say drive?
Our kids are far more well off than either of us. My eldest daughter has the tendency to feel content being taken care of, while my youngest has shown a strong independent streak from infancy. That's not a knock on my daughter, but independence is not something that she particularly cares about at least now. Maybe that will change once she's a teenager and hates our "oppressive rules" At the same time, I have zero intention of forcing her out or into independence. I hope that it'll be a gentle, natural transition. Maybe that's what's missing here with the OP -- she's frustrated and it's manifesting itself.
Maybe she should arrange to find him an apartment and maybe supplement the rent until he can make it on his own. She gets her space and he gets the training wheels taken off. If he is a responsible person, he'd put an end to the help line once he gets on his feet.
So my son, who just turned 23, graduated from college a few months ago. I told him he was welcome to stay with me as long as he wanted. Big mistake.
My husband and I divorced many many years ago, and I raised my son in an apartment. I still live in this apartment, and while I missed my son when he was away at college, I loved having my own space. Things are now back to the way they way were before they went to college, except that he's a 23-year-old man instead of a teenage boy.
He's managed to get some very low-paying jobs with his degree, but doesn't earn enough to contribute a lot. He's an adult now and I have no obligation to let him live with me. So the other day, I told him that he had 2 months to find another place. And he hit the ceiling.
He told me I was selfish and didn't love him, and also called me a traitor and other horrific things. He said all this instead of thanking me for letting him stay under my roof for 8 months. How does he not understand me wanting my own space after 23 years? I took having my own space for granted when he was at college, which is why I said he could return for as long as he wanted, but now I realize what a luxury I had and that I really want it back.
Surely he must understand my need for peace and independence.
Start walking around naked. If that doesn't work, get a boyfriend and let him walk around naked, too.
These are called observations. In this case they don't advance insight or recommend change. We already know the OP has an adult child moving out at TOO SLOW A RATE, and is hiding from life. We need input on how to change it. And to do that, we need something first: JUDGMENT!
Don't be afraid to judge. That's religious incorrectness. We need people to judge, and not be afraid to discuss it. JUDGMENT makes the world go round and is a basic immutable human tool of survival and success. JUDGMENT is GOOD. DO IT!
There's a difference between discussing something, and judging someone blindly.
I don't think that parents who keep their adult children in the home are concerned with raising independent, strong, competent adults. I think they are afraid of old age, are lonely, often indifferent or unhappy with their spouse if they still have one, and really want the company and the companionship and the illusion that they are still what they were when the kids were young.
So it's a double edged pathology that keeps both parties from living correctly and independently.
It's basically parental fear of letting go, and a child's self-doubt and incompetence and/or lack of confidence in their ability to exist in a healthy and independent state. And the really bad thing about it? It is self-reinforcing and self-perpetuating. The weak adult child gets older and remains comfortable and becomes ever more incompetent. The parent(s) continue the destructive rescuing in order to gain companionship and a filler to the impending void of older age.
It's a very bad business, and caters to human weakness and the desire for the easy way out.
And what happens is that weakened kids attract and are attracted by weak spouses. It is a well worn cliché that the worst prospect for marriage is someone in their mid 20s who is living at home with mommy and/or daddy. Who wants that? It is an immediate red flag and black mark. If I were a parent of a 25 year old living at home, I would be embarrassed about it and would not want to admit it to my friends. Especially those whose kids were up and out and functioning on their own and on their own steam.
Depends on the circumstances. "Back in my day," I'd agree. For millennials today, I don't agree so much.
Moreover, I have a feeling that the West in general and the US in particular is going to see a sea-change in living patterns away from the "leave the nest at 18" pattern...which really only existed generally for Boomers and X-genners.
The War Generation--which was still mostly rural-- just as often as not lived with or close to parents until the post-war boom (and a lot of government education and housing assistance) enabled them to move to the city.
I think that will prove to have been a historical blip.
These are called observations. In this case they don't advance insight or recommend change. We already know the OP has an adult child moving out at TOO SLOW A RATE, and is hiding from life. We need input on how to change it. And to do that, we need something first: JUDGMENT!
Don't be afraid to judge. That's religious incorrectness. We need people to judge, and not be afraid to discuss it. JUDGMENT makes the world go round and is a basic immutable human tool of survival and success. JUDGMENT is GOOD. DO IT!
He doesn't seem to be hiding from life. He JUST got out of college. He finished college....something that most people don't do,and certainly something that one hiding from life would not do.
She offered to help with his boarding, while he searches for a good job and career right after college. Then she in essence changed her mind and ordered him out in a very short period of time. That was HER bad. Not a kind thing to do.
She sounds like the one who doesn't have a grip on how life is. Like he is supposed to magically save up money in two months to move out, pay a deposit and 1st mo. rent for an apt, find an apt, and maybe find a roommate. An almost impossible task unless you go down to rent in skid row.
I suggested she treat him as she would want to be treated in her older years by him. You suggest "judging" because of your religious beliefs. The main tenet in all religions is what? It's "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
The point is not whether she has a right to kick him out. The point, IMO, is whether she was fair and kind in her handling of the situation. He is, after all, her son.
No, I'm not suggesting that they sell their homes at a loss. What I am referring to is a generally NIMBY attitude that older home owners have towards millennials. Older Home owners actively opposed development near them and usually cite preserving character or keeping out undesirables as the reason. I can understand how they could be partly the reason, but many times i think they are using Zoning for their own benefit.
I read of an example last week where a neighborhood of a few hundred homes opposed an expansion of the neighborhood of a few dozen homes. They didn't want the extra "traffic" (which would be minimal btw), and even though the extra houses would contribute to property taxes with minimal infrastructure additions they opposed it. They designated a "nature preserve" or something to permanently keep it from being developed. Totally irrational from a good for the community and city at large perspective (lost taxes). Great for the people who already live there.
Its just like the National debt and things like SS. I know I will never get any SS, but it comes out of my check anyway.
Sure there are exceptions, I have friends who are married and own a home at 25, its usually a combination of good decisions and good luck.
The deck is stacked against us as a generation, expectations of us all moving out and owning a home in our early 20s is totally unreasonable. 90% of the people I know in my generation that live at home are contributing in some way and doing it with a goal to get out of debt.
Its hard for me to answer this without coming across like a jerk but things have always been tough in one way or another. The interest rate on my first house was 12 percent with 20 percent down; my student loans were 9 percent; a couple of housing and stock markets crashes ....... you get the idea.
As far as SS goes, I have been paying into it for over 40 years, 30 years as a self-employed payer! I'm the wrong guy to ask for sympathy on that issue .
In any event saying the deck is stacked against you as a generation may be a bit of an overstatement.
We have 4 children 3 are now adults. Our oldest son has lived with us 4x since he moved out originally when he was 17 he is now 30. We have told him he can not come back home to live. He understands and is good with this. We weren't rude or mean just matter of fact about it. Our daughter has only come home once and she is 28 now. She has her own house and family. Our 3rd child a son has lived with us 2x since graduating from hs. He also has been told he can not come back to live with us. The baby of the family who is now 14 already said he is buying a van and will live in that before coming back home to live. LOL!!!
We love our kids and have a good relationship with all of them it was just time for them to be adults and make decisions like adults.
No, I'm not suggesting that they sell their homes at a loss. What I am referring to is a generally NIMBY attitude that older home owners have towards millennials. Older Home owners actively opposed development near them and usually cite preserving character or keeping out undesirables as the reason. I can understand how they could be partly the reason, but many times i think they are using Zoning for their own benefit.
I read of an example last week where a neighborhood of a few hundred homes opposed an expansion of the neighborhood of a few dozen homes. They didn't want the extra "traffic" (which would be minimal btw), and even though the extra houses would contribute to property taxes with minimal infrastructure additions they opposed it. They designated a "nature preserve" or something to permanently keep it from being developed. Totally irrational from a good for the community and city at large perspective (lost taxes). Great for the people who already live there.
Its just like the National debt and things like SS. I know I will never get any SS, but it comes out of my check anyway.
Sure there are exceptions, I have friends who are married and own a home at 25, its usually a combination of good decisions and good luck.
The deck is stacked against us as a generation, expectations of us all moving out and owning a home in our early 20s is totally unreasonable. 90% of the people I know in my generation that live at home are contributing in some way and doing it with a goal to get out of debt.
You will get your SS, unless the Republicans end it. Who did you vote for? Trump = end SS as we know it. Clinton = protect SS as it is, and tweak it to fix it, probably by raising taxes and other things.
A person in his 20s doesn't need to be owning a home. They are in a mode of establishing a career. They will probably move. This is the decade for cheap apartments, and/or living with parents for a while.
Yes, the bolded is what people are objecting to, mainly. You invited him to stay with you, then pulled a sudden switcheroo. He had no warning this was coming, so he may not have enough saved for first and last month's rent + damage deposit. A sudden switcheroo is an unreasonable and unrealistic way to handle the situation.
<<SNIP>>
Unless he had that saved up prior to moving in with Mom (and there is no indication that is the case) he is in the EXACT SAME situation as when Mom took him in - he isn't worse off as a result of Mom changing her mind.
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At the same time, I have zero intention of forcing her out or into independence. I hope that it'll be a gentle, natural transition. Maybe that's what's missing here with the OP -- she's frustrated and it's manifesting itself.
