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Don't personalize, stay focused on the issue. We are talking about the way people should live in order to be happy, productive, and rational. Stay with that.
You have mansplained way too much in this thread. YOU might have had a bad experience at a day care. YOU think WOMEN should stay home. Guess, what I was a day care kid and I loved going to day care. My nephews had the option of staying with grandma, and they did, part time but they still went to day care because kids need to socialize.
If women want to stay home with their kids, good for them.
If women want to (not even bothering with the have to--as you'd try to mansplain that too) work and have a career and be a mom, good for them too. It is not up to you, to determine what is best for ALL families. Every family is different and every family has different needs. Only the couple in the relationship can determine what is best for their situation...not you or anyone else.
School is OK, and at about the age of 6 I think there is enough maturity and development for most kids to begin their journey into the external world without constant parental supervision. But I still want Mom or Dad at home when school is over. Home school would also be fine, but I am not sure a typical parent is going to be the best candidate to teach reading, writing, and math and science. I could do it, but I was doing calculus in high school for fun and doing dangerous chemistry experiments in the basement. I don't think the typical parent is qualified to teach the range of diverse subjects that have to be learned. Plus, teaching is an utter talent. Not everyone can do it.
I know why you don't like working moms. It's because the kids will be influence to be more equalitarian and to work when they grow up (for girls) and to do more childcare and chores when they grow up (for boys).
Daughters of working mothers grow up to be more successful in the workplace than their peers. They earn more and are more likely to be bosses, according to new findings from a Harvard Business School study.
While daughters see the biggest tangible financial gains, sons of working moms are more likely to grow up contributing to the childcare and household chores.
All over the world, children of working mothers are less likely to stick to traditional roles of male breadwinners and female homemakers.
Except no one has posted any "overall statistics " in support of working moms being selfish or bad parents, or that SAHMS are better parents or that their children turn out better.
It's a difficult thing to study, and some aspects you mentioned are irrelevant. (How would you determine if a parent is "selfish" and in what ways would it matter?)
Here are a few quotes from a Princeton study:
Quote:
infants who spent more time in child care experienced somewhat less favorable patterns of mother-infant interactions than did the infants not enrolled in child care. These patterns persisted over the first three years of life.
Quote:
More hours in child care are associated with negative outcomes for children...children who spent more time in nonmaternal care during the first four and one-half years of life were perceived by their preschool and kindergarten teachers as more aggressive, assertive, and defiant than children of the same age who spent less time in child care
Quote:
Three-quarters of infant caregivers provided only minimal stimulation of cognitive and language development. One caregiver in five interacted with the children in what observers rated as a moderately or highly detached way. Fewer than 25% of infants were cared for by highly sensitive caregivers.
Quote:
Young children’s needs for consistent caregivers often go unmet in this nation’s child care settings.
I know why you don't like working moms. It's because the kids will be influence to be more equalitarian and to work when they grow up (for girls) and to do more childcare and chores when they grow up (for boys).
Interesting article. I follow this topic, in the lit and had missed this one. Thank you for sharing.
On a side note, I am always surprised how many people act like daycares are some sort of institutional factory farm for kids. My daughter went to a great day care whose staff members became and still are family friends. Twenty some odd years later the head of the daycare and her 3yo teacher both came to her college graduation.
On another side note, I like how people go to extremes. Stay at home moms do nothing but educational activities and make home grown meals while working moms go through labor and put their newborns in day care for 24hrs a day. That is as bad a classifying SAHMs as lazy do nothings, and working moms as saints. The reality is in the middle and ultimately, a quality day care, in the hours used by the typical family, are not going to harm children despite the use of histrionics in an attempt to shame women.
No, there are exceptions to everything. For instance, it's well established scientifically that smoking is terrible for one's health and that smokers tend to develop various diseases and die at a younger age, on average, than non-smokers. However, it is possible to dig up a random example of a person who smoked a pack a day starting at 15, and was as healthy as a horse until he died in his sleep at 98. Some people will try to use that person as proof that smoking really isn't so bad, and doesn't really cause all those problems. But one counter-example does NOT negate the overall statistics, or the fact that smoking is a poor choice.
If you are fond of statistics, why don't you look up how many families with one income have enough in savings to endure a catastrophic event. I would bet it is a tiny fraction of the population.
Everyone has their own priorities and financial security is extremely important to my husband and me. Our savings saved us once before and if the need arises, it could again.
After twenty years of marriage, my husband knows I am with him because I WANT to be, not because I'm dependent on him. I make enough money that I could comfortably support myself and the kids. I sometimes think it keeps him on his best behavior.
I didn't want our kids to just survive childhood, I wanted them to have great memories. They have been to New York, Florida, Bahamas, Georgia, Chicago, DC, Hawaii, all over California, Colorado, etc. One of them said to the other, "Whatever else happens in life, at least we can look back on an awesome childhood."
I think we can move on. Everyone's opinion has been expressed, so we are starting to go in circles. In my opinion, the SAHPs are at the top of the pyramid and deserve all the respect and admiration for running their lives correctly and making it happen for their kids. If you can't personally raise them, then don't have them. If someone has a 3 year old kid and really and truly doesn't want to be home with them, then they are not parental material and should never have had kids. That's just a fact.
It's a difficult thing to study, and some aspects you mentioned are irrelevant. (How would you determine if a parent is "selfish" and in what ways would it matter?)
But from your own study, literally the first bulleted point:
"Early exposure to child care can foster children ’s learning and enhance their lives, or it can leave them at risk for troubled relationships. The outcome that results depends largely on the quality of the child care setting."
And assuming you read your own study, low quality care is almost entirely the province of low income families, most of whom must have a mother working. For the typical middle class family, quality child care is readily available.
If you are fond of statistics, why don't you look up how many families with one income have enough in savings to endure a catastrophic event. I would bet it is a tiny fraction of the population.
Everyone has their own priorities and financial security is extremely important to my husband and me. Our savings saved us once before and if the need arises, it could again.
After twenty years of marriage, my husband knows I am with him because I WANT to be, not because I'm dependent on him. I make enough money that I could comfortably support myself and the kids. I sometimes think it keeps him on his best behavior.
I didn't want our kids to just survive childhood, I wanted them to have great memories. They have been to New York, Florida, Bahamas, Georgia, Chicago, DC, Hawaii, all over California, Colorado, etc. One of them said to the other, "Whatever else happens in life, at least we can look back on an awesome childhood."
I read through some responses and was planning to post something along these same lines. We choose to work two jobs not only because we enjoy working and contributing to society but we want to provide our children with wonderful experiences. Apparently I should feel guilty for taking my family on vacations (I don't). I want my kids (and myself) to see the world, not just read about it in books. My kids are only 5 and 7 and have been to half the US states, and have driven across Canada. They love NYC and Chicago as well as the Columbia Icefields and The Blue Ridge Parkway. Next year it will hopefully be Brazil.
If you are fond of statistics, why don't you look up how many families with one income have enough in savings to endure a catastrophic event. I would bet it is a tiny fraction of the population.
Everyone has their own priorities and financial security is extremely important to my husband and me. Our savings saved us once before and if the need arises, it could again.
After twenty years of marriage, my husband knows I am with him because I WANT to be, not because I'm dependent on him. I make enough money that I could comfortably support myself and the kids. I sometimes think it keeps him on his best behavior.
I didn't want our kids to just survive childhood, I wanted them to have great memories. They have been to New York, Florida, Bahamas, Georgia, Chicago, DC, Hawaii, all over California, Colorado, etc. One of them said to the other, "Whatever else happens in life, at least we can look back on an awesome childhood."
That's all great stuff, but none of those great things you mention are necessarily tied to having two working parents.
I've been married for over 20 years as well. I haven't been employed since my first child was born; I'm a SAHM and a homeschooling parent. We live in beautiful sunny Southern California and have been all over the West Coast, the Southwest, Hawaii, and Germany. If I lost my husband or he lost his job, the rest of us could live comfortably for at least 10 years on our savings (not to mention his large life insurance policy)--and all the kids would be grown before that time was up. Oh, and by the way he is a mechanic, not a CEO. So it can be done on one income, with good planning.
What's kinda dumb is the idea that families with one income are necessarily deprived and suffering.
It's a difficult thing to study, and some aspects you mentioned are irrelevant. (How would you determine if a parent is "selfish" and in what ways would it matter?
I don't have time to read the entire study at the moment (but I will).
Interesting that the very first paragraph of the summary states
Quote:
Caregiving is, therefore, central to development, whether the caregiver is a parent , a grandmother, or a teacher in a child care center.
Given that quote, I'm guessing your study isn't about how bad working mothers are for children
Last edited by maciesmom; 03-28-2017 at 01:10 PM..
Reason: Fixed wonky quote spacing
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