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OP, first of all, I want to commend you on listening to your daughters request.
Children are not objects, but emotional soulful beings who actually know what they need.
So, GOOD FOR YOU to listen to her.
That shows your capacity to be an extraordinary parent and trust more the situation than opinions of others.
It may be that your daughter's typology (her inherent temperament) is better suited to her grandparents.
That doesn't make anyone wrong. It's just that they may be better suited given the whole situation.
I am curious about your wife's perspective, her bonding with this child, her level of balance in the care of all the children. (no need to say, just for your reflection)
An important aspect is to watch for hidden agendas and unspoken expectations.
Is your daughter gifted and curious, intuitive and introverted? Such a match might be very supportive of her.
Another aspect to keep in mind might be the guilt that could come later.
If you know of a wise, old therapist (Jungian) a family meeting could be helpful.
You sound very grounded and wise yourself, kind and open to what's best for your daughter.
Trust yourself. Listen carefully to you daughter.
Nothing is etched in stone. A flexible life adapted to changing needs best serves family and society.
Be wary of judgement by others.
Your own discerning mind and instincts of all the family members will make the best choices.
Open communication will ease any challenges, alleviate later guilt.
Look for the good, be wary of any "stories" that get created, keep the intention pure and supportive.
I trust you to find your way with this.
Families all over the world adapt their lives to what's best for their children and families.
In America, we seem to have a lot of judgement based on what we "think is best", when really it only serves our own biases of convention.
Your consideration of this matter is wise. Proceed prudently and with love.
Best wishes to you all.
this is insane. You don't get rid of a child because their personality doesn't match your family. You work to adjust to accommodate their personality and needs. She isn't best off being sent away, she is best off having parents who are willing to adapt and meet her needs.
I was a 3rd child and I always felt like I didn't fit in either with my family.
Oh I found it...this is it. You are replaying the script from your life. It wasn't that hard to find. Please get into therapy with her and learn to bond with her and work for her. Remember being her? Remember how it felt? Don't make her feel that way. And don't get the love you needed from your mother through your daughter and her grandmother.
Kindergartners hate to share and need a lot of attention. This is the developmental point where they get feedback and realize that not everything is about them and that they're part of a family (and other social units).
Instead of working through that very natural adjustment process, you're proposing to halt that development and "tell" your five year old that everything IS about them and they're not a part of your family.
No he is not that disabled he just requires more attention than the other kids at times. I don't really want her to go but her wanting to go and my mother wanting her there makes me want to do what's best for our daughter. She adjusted really well with her grandparents and she NEEDS that 1 on 1 attention that the other kids never really NEEDED,she absolutely craves it and my parents loved giving it to her constantly. My mother seems to think she is ADD or ADHD,which she is very very hyper I just think that's because she is 5,but the closest sibling I can compare that to is her brother who is 8 and has his own disabilities to deal with so its impossible to compare it. I do agree me and my 5 year old don't have that much of a bond,never have. I love her like I love all my kids and she is the funniest of all my kids for sure it just seems like WE don't understand her and her grandmother does,its a very odd situation its like her grandmother and her have a special bond she doesn't seem to have with me or her mother...What is also odd to me is she is a 3rd child and I was a 3rd child and I always felt like I didn't fit in either with my family.
OP, your post here gives insight on the complexity of the situation.
We all have our own individual opinions based on family history, feelings, judgments, etc.
As a clinical psychologist with advanced psychoanalytic training and over 40 years of experience in trauma and family systems, I understand the inner-workings of human nature.
My prior post, nor this one is "insane."
It is well thought out, based on the information given.
The increasingly outdated authoritarian position of "YOU are the child and I and the parent" is an outmoded force of power that leaves children disconnected from themselves because it does not acknowledge their own sense of self.
We treat children as if they are stupid. (and no, I don't agree with over-indulgence either)
Children are not stupid. Some infants (and children) are more self (and world aware) than you imagine.
Some are not... it's like people... we all have a range of perceptive ability--some more than others.
Ever seen a baby look at her mother, then back to you, transmitting in their eyes, "Do you see what I see? She [my mother] is not here/present/aware/conscious."
It's heartbreaking to see a child who realizes her parents are not "present."
(I am not saying this about you, but am making a point on consciousness and some children's perceptive awareness and needs)
The most creative children with the greatest gifts to the world are the most sensitive.
They may look add/hd but when their anxiety calms (stability/quiet) they are able to focus the inner surge of ideas into creative channels.
Working with the most creative award-winning luminaries shows patterns people rarely see.
I have been fortunate to have this experience with adults and children.
There are subtleties, qualities of human nature that most people gloss over because they just haven't had exposure to them.
Most people have not been trained, didn't have the sensitivity in their family, so they preclude it does't exist. They don't know what to do with difference, they can't bear the pain of lifetimes of family trauma or ignorance or ineptitude so they brush everything but their own awareness and personal thoughts aside.
Survival [for them] is to get in their heads-- a capacity for greater perception and self awareness is diminished in service to "knowing" from their thinking (based again on history, experiences, prejudices, etc)
Knowing, however, exists on multiple levels.
The most surface knowing is thought, then comes knowing of the heart, then comes the deepest, most soulful knowing of presence, the knowing in your bones of whats best, regardless of what others think.
It takes a LOT of courage to trust the deepest level of that knowing--called wisdom.
Often irrational, it asks the most from us in service to something larger.
This is what the stories of the bible are made of.
OP, you are searching for the best possible solution for your daughter.
I do not perceive that you are shipping her off. I perceive you are searching, exploring options.
And, perhaps you are seeing yourself in her, perhaps what you may have wanted.
Allow a deeper sense of wisdom to inform you. Look at this from all sides. Invite conversation and consultation.
Any shoulds, ought-to's, judgmental concepts of "right or wrong" will miss the mark of what's needed here.
Seeking counsel of someone with advanced training, capable of perceiving a deeper truth than the surface could be very helpful. Most counselors or family therapists lack the range of experience for a situation like this.
With careful exploration and love, you will find the best next step to take. Anything done can be undone.
We never know the outcome of our actions. We can only ever pray for guidance and be aware as possible.
I have no idea what is best.
Given your writing, I trust that you will know in due time.
I honor your willingness to explore options in service to your daughter's best possible unfolding into this world.
You show courage and integrity. She is lucky that you are her father.
Well now she is back and she is already asking to go back to granny's house,my mother wants her back as does my father.
...
She seems to need A LOT of attention and HATES sharing a room with her 2 year old sister,doesn't care for her older siblings either etc. We talked to her about it and she said she wants to go back.
Who exactly is the parent here?
You are giving this child far too much power.
This is your child, and she belongs at home with you.
OP, your post here gives insight on the complexity of the situation.
We all have our own individual opinions based on family history, feelings, judgments, etc.
As a clinical psychologist with advanced psychoanalytic training and over 40 years of experience in trauma and family systems, I understand the inner-workings of human nature.
My prior post, nor this one is "insane."
It is well thought out, based on the information given.
The increasingly outdated authoritarian position of "YOU are the child and I and the parent" is an outmoded force of power that leaves children disconnected from themselves because it does not acknowledge their own sense of self.
We treat children as if they are stupid. (and no, I don't agree with over-indulgence either)
Children are not stupid. Some infants (and children) are more self (and world aware) than you imagine.
Some are not... it's like people... we all have a range of perceptive ability--some more than others.
Ever seen a baby look at her mother, then back to you, transmitting in their eyes, "Do you see what I see? She [my mother] is not here/present/aware/conscious."
It's heartbreaking to see a child who realizes her parents are not "present."
(I am not saying this about you, but am making a point on consciousness and some children's perceptive awareness and needs)
The most creative children with the greatest gifts to the world are the most sensitive.
They may look add/hd but when their anxiety calms (stability/quiet) they are able to focus the inner surge of ideas into creative channels.
Working with the most creative award-winning luminaries shows patterns people rarely see.
I have been fortunate to have this experience with adults and children.
There are subtleties, qualities of human nature that most people gloss over because they just haven't had exposure to them.
Most people have not been trained, didn't have the sensitivity in their family, so they preclude it does't exist. They don't know what to do with difference, they can't bear the pain of lifetimes of family trauma or ignorance or ineptitude so they brush everything but their own awareness and personal thoughts aside.
Survival [for them] is to get in their heads-- a capacity for greater perception and self awareness is diminished in service to "knowing" from their thinking (based again on history, experiences, prejudices, etc)
Knowing, however, exists on multiple levels.
The most surface knowing is thought, then comes knowing of the heart, then comes the deepest, most soulful knowing of presence, the knowing in your bones of whats best, regardless of what others think.
It takes a LOT of courage to trust the deepest level of that knowing--called wisdom.
Often irrational, it asks the most from us in service to something larger.
This is what the stories of the bible are made of.
OP, you are searching for the best possible solution for your daughter.
I do not perceive that you are shipping her off. I perceive you are searching, exploring options.
And, perhaps you are seeing yourself in her, perhaps what you may have wanted.
Allow a deeper sense of wisdom to inform you. Look at this from all sides. Invite conversation and consultation.
Any shoulds, ought-to's, judgmental concepts of "right or wrong" will miss the mark of what's needed here.
Seeking counsel of someone with advanced training, capable of perceiving a deeper truth than the surface could be very helpful. Most counselors or family therapists lack the range of experience for a situation like this.
With careful exploration and love, you will find the best next step to take. Anything done can be undone.
We never know the outcome of our actions. We can only ever pray for guidance and be aware as possible.
I have no idea what is best.
Given your writing, I trust that you will know in due time.
I honor your willingness to explore options in service to your daughter's best possible unfolding into this world.
You show courage and integrity. She is lucky that you are her father.
Protect her as best you can.
I parent using Trust Based Relational Interventions, also known as connected parenting. Your advice is way out of line for attachment and connection. You claim to be a therapist...if so, I hope the OP doesn't walk into an office where they get advice and hand holding like this advice. Mom and dad need to take ownership of the problem and stop putting it on the child and learn how to parent the child in a way that this particular child needs.
Even the OP knows they have made this child the black sheep and wants to get out of dealing with her. Its time to step up and own that this problem is with the parents, not the child. And they learn, grow and adjust so they can raise this child with the love and attention they somehow got shorted out of while they were growing up.
Re bonding, I had trouble bonding with my first. He's the one we eventually found out at ADHD. I had PPD. We had a difficult couple of years. I didn't ship him off to his grand parents because it was easier. I sought therapy for him and for me. I took him to specialist who could help him and help me deal with him. We improved our relationship. Now he is a teen who hugs me goodbye every day. He and I are fine. He is excelling in school. Things are good.
Re one-on-one time, if that's what she needs, give it to her. Even in the healthiest of families, parents should set up one-on-one time with each kid. It could be 10 minutes every day, or an hour every week, or a whole day every month. Whatever works. It isn't realistic to think that she will get a lot of 1-1 time, but that's life in a family and in the world.
It is not unheard of in other parts of the world where children from large family might be "semi adopted/fostered" by a childless uncle or aunt. So grandparents aren't too far. Ideally if your parents lived next door to you or you moved close to your parents, then you can have best of both world. Does she enjoy when grandma comes stays with you? Maybe your mom can come visit you guys for bit and you can see if she is really attached to her grandma or just likes being spoiled by grandma
I like the idea of sending different kid to spend time with grandma. If your middle child is hugging all the grandparents attention, that is not fair to your other child. They need to know grandma and spend time with her too.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 2 days ago)
35,605 posts, read 17,927,273 times
Reputation: 50627
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626
I've been thinking more about this thread. I'll respond with my experience based on 40 years of teaching preschool and kindergarten age children and my Master's degree in Early Childhood Development. If the relationship between you and your daughter is irretrievably broken, if you truly feel that it is damaging to her to continue living with you, if you, your wife & daughter & your other children have gone through extensive family consulting, then perhaps it is time to revoke you & your spouses parental rights and give her up permanently to be adopted by a stranger (not the grandparents) and never have any contact with her ever again.
Good luck.
I'm not sure when this information was considered the best way to deal with children and parental separation, but current science indicates that children fare far better when removed from parents if they are placed with extended family who are familiar to them, and continue to have some access to their parents if possible. (Sometimes the relationship is far too toxic to allow that, though).
Even when mothers are incarcerated, there are programs that allow children access to their mothers, or even their mother's voice. Family courts in Texas (not sure if this is true everywhere else) have as a first priority parental reunification, or failing that, family adoption for children who are removed from their parents.
Removing a child from family (even for very good reason) and placing them with strangers and never allowing contact again with parents is often devastating and the child never recovers. Because children are bonded.
It sounds like the thinking used to be different - and I'm not referring to cases where children were horrifically abused in the fashion that would be front page news. I'm talking about where the parents were unable/unwilling to parent effectively and had their parental rights severed.
Re bonding, I had trouble bonding with my first. He's the one we eventually found out at ADHD. I had PPD. We had a difficult couple of years. I didn't ship him off to his grand parents because it was easier. I sought therapy for him and for me. I took him to specialist who could help him and help me deal with him. We improved our relationship. Now he is a teen who hugs me goodbye every day. He and I are fine. He is excelling in school. Things are good.
Re one-on-one time, if that's what she needs, give it to her. Even in the healthiest of families, parents should set up one-on-one time with each kid. It could be 10 minutes every day, or an hour every week, or a whole day every month. Whatever works. It isn't realistic to think that she will get a lot of 1-1 time, but that's life in a family and in the world.
Your post made me cry (maybe I am hormonal). My daughter, my last kid, came to me as an infant (adoption, like all of them). But she was already traumatized. But her behavior was so triggering to me because I felt rejected. I did put a lot of my feelings on her from my own past. And I relived some of what I went through with my mother (PPD, didn't want me, didn't like me).
Finally I realized *I* was the adult and *I* needed help and *I* needed to find her help. And I got it for all of us. It didn't change that she had the developmental trauma. And she still struggles and we still get help. But...it was so hard for me to admit. I felt a lot of shame that I had not been providing her with what she needed from me for those first precious years of life. But I realized if I let myself dwell on it, I couldn't help either of us. I was doing the best I could with what I had...I had to get more support.
So its a work in progress, but she is amazing and sweet and my everything...even though its hard sometimes. She can be the most loving girl, and the next second hate my guts (its still a work in process). I hope as a teenager I can report that things are going well like they are with your son.
Thanks for sharing.
As for alone time...my kids (still at home) need very different things, and they can be triggered by what other kid needs. I work alone time in my life with each of them so I can meet their needs. Even if its just a little time here and there.
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