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What a nasty thing for a "mommy"(and nothing else) to say!
Guess I can balance this out by mentioning the parents I've seen that should never had had children...but what's the point?
If you gave birth you are clearly more intelligent, more enlightened, more skilled, more successful, able to shop better, closer to god, more loving(move over Mother Theresa!), you have a "soul" as opposed to us poor childfree people who are souless and so unloving....
there "mommies"...feel better????
Actually, it's the children who made/make me feel better.
When I think about having children, I know I would enjoy infants and small children. But after about age 7 or so, that's the part of parenthood that I don't think I would enjoy. And especially pre-teen and the teen years. For me, when I imagine parenthood and being a mom, I tend to think about me dealing with a pre-teen or teen, and that's when I start to think that perhaps it's not for me. I don't really think about the cute infants and toddlers as much, because that time passes so quickly, and then they become rebellious, mouthy, bratty pre-teens and teens, just as I was. I know I drove my parents crazy--I was no walk in the park as a pre-teen and teen. And when I think about parenthood that's what I think about. So even as much as I know I would enjoy parenting an infant or young child, there's the pre-teen and teen years to deal with.
I can only say that the "children" feel fine........ My three grown girls have loved every second on this earth too. Their six sons.......are enjoying all Gods gifts to explore and learn also. No one is unhappy. The World is a beautiful place to be placed on. We thought about having children, we had them......knowing they would enjoy a life here too. The child was going to be fine......and well loved. When my baby tilted its head back and stared up at my face at two days old....I think we both were happy she was here. Both of us! I don't forget that moment, many moons later.....
I understand what you are saying. I don't think those here on the parenting forum are so close minded that people without children are not welcomed to come here and interact in the discussion. I am sure there are other's without children who have done so and no offense has been taken. I think the uproar that has taken place has a lot to do with the choice of wording that has been used in some posts. The reality is that some have been condescending.
You might want to see that we’ve been asked several times why we are in the parenting forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mari4him
To be on a parenting board where there are tons of parents who love their children and work their hardest to raise their children the best they can and have generalized statements made such as "most" shouldn't breed or have accusations made such as "overpopulating" the word and aiding to it's "demise" or whatever phrase was used, is going to get backlash. No one likes to be attacked or feel as if they are being attacked.
That was me who believe that most people shouldn’t breed. I stand by that statement. My next sentence was but that’s my personal opinion and I’m not asking or expecting others to do anything about it. I was baited into explaining myself and repeated what I said and my explanation. Other than that it was parents who chose to take it personally and say that I told them not to breed.
Again, I am childfree because I believe that overpopulation is aiding the world’s demise (you put it better than I did).
And again, I expressed my opinion, as parents expressed the joy blather blather they feel for their children.
I provided my opinion and people chose to feel attacked personally. Gee, that might be saying something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mari4him
Then even though it has been tried to be pointed out by different people, even saying that while the point is agreed at some level to say most is unfair judgment, the term most is not dropped and but rather continued to be used and pushed, even though it is known to be inflaming the discussion. Choosing a different word is not that difficult and does not necessarily mean that it is changing a person's stand. Bringing resolution or toning down a heated debate is a two way road. I know I have tried to difuse it a bit, addressing matters in a non-judgmental manner and fair usage of terms but it seems to be to no avail at times.
I did not push the point that I feel most people shouldn’t breed, I never called you breeders. You (generic) chose to use it as a point of anger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mari4him
Political correctness and acceptance of other peoples views can not be expected from one side yet not from the other.
That’s from both sides.
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Mari,
You knew you wanted children so you were never “childfree” you were “childless” while waiting to have children.
There’s a big difference in the mindset.
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Lillietta,
Most women who get divorced with a few kids do not fare well, many of them do end up in shelters, either from abuse or poverty. Simply a fact. No job, no income, no place to live.
I’m set so I’m not going to end up anywhere near a shelter. I’m completely debt-free, own a few properties and a considerable retirement fund (we’ll see how the market fares)… I have no worries personally.
Difficult to deny what it is to be without children???? Ummm.... Prior to having my children I was without them. I had all the freedom in the world to go out with friends, enjoy the carefree living, responsible only for myself, all my resources available for my wants and desires. I experienced that. I know what it is like. Being Divorced, I also experience weekends, and at times weeks when I am not with my children and have all my time to myself and guess what..... I WANT MY KIDS with me. I would not trade a moment of having my kids with me for anything in the world."""
Mari, oh joy, children of divorce...mine would've been, too....glad they didn't have to go through that
Sorry but that is just a ridiculous comparison. I'm sure we all have at one point or another understood that fire and being burned hurts. I don't need to light myself on fire to confirm that.""
Mari, that was in response to those who think that if you don't have children you don't/can't know what it's like. For pete's sake, don't be so literal!
I disagree. I think there are some parents out there that do feel they regret having their children and admit so. In fact isn't that what started this thread. By the same token there are a lot of parents that do not regret having their children, while they admit that they regret maybe not waiting a bit longer or perhaps waiting too long to have them. But of course to someone who wants to attack parents, it would appear as a bunch of "defensive/offensive line of BS" because they have to be right and the other's wrong.""
Mari, you could say the same about some on here who seem to think they are right to have kids and those who don't are wrong....seems you can't see that.
No one has said that. But the reality of my experience as a daughter, grand-daughter, niece, aunt, cousin, friend, god-mother to someone else child, etc. can never and does not compare to my experience as a Mother. Like it or not, believe it or not, there is a difference that is felt within you. You can deny it all you want, but until you have experienced it, you can't possibly know.""
No, BUT I did know what having kids would mean to me and THEM...here ya go with "try it you might like it". Parents have NOT been lifted to a higher astral plane!
I don't think anyone has been saying "try it, you'll like it". In fact I think most people on this forum would agree that if someone does not want to be a parent then they shouldn't be. However, we will say, don't insult our role as parents and deny the joys we have being parents because you can't comprehend them because you haven't experienced them.
Here we go again with "most". How would you know what "most" parents give thought to or not? Are you at such personal and intimate levels with "most" of the world to know what they give consideration to or not. I doubt that. I know you don't know me. You have no clue as to what I gave consideration and thought to or not, so do not pretend to speak for me among your "most".
Why do you insist "most" means you????????
AND SO DID I. Not only did I do that at the moment that I decided to have my children, but I do that every single day of my life. It's called parenthood for those of us that have children.
Mari
Your taking all my statements out of context , away from those I was responding to is not quite 'cricket"...just another attack on the childfree
When I think about having children, I know I would enjoy infants and small children. But after about age 7 or so, that's the part of parenthood that I don't think I would enjoy. And especially pre-teen and the teen years. For me, when I imagine parenthood and being a mom, I tend to think about me dealing with a pre-teen or teen, and that's when I start to think that perhaps it's not for me. I don't really think about the cute infants and toddlers as much, because that time passes so quickly, and then they become rebellious, mouthy, bratty pre-teens and teens, just as I was. I know I drove my parents crazy--I was no walk in the park as a pre-teen and teen. And when I think about parenthood that's what I think about. So even as much as I know I would enjoy parenting an infant or young child, there's the pre-teen and teen years to deal with.
You know what the trick was with that........to be lighthearted.
During those teen times I would look at a daughter and say...." this is a stage sweetie, you'll be over this soon and things will be fine"......rather then yell or make a fuss.
I had many of their friends come and stay with us, rather then their own homes. I am a "second Mom to many"
Mostly I would sit down with them, eye to eye and gentlely see what was bothering them.
You can do it, really........and that works.
I find to this day that I like teens around. I know it isn't the norm.......but, I do.
I still like to sit with teenagers, or to take teens places. I just took two Brazil girls shopping for an entire day.......just to get them out and about......as they came to the Poconos with no transportation. We had a great time and a great lunch. These are girls I had not known previously.
Teen years can go well........But, being a parent you have to have set limits, and stick by them. And.....be always ready to sit and talk.
It can work and if you do it right, you'll have a good sense of pride from handleing that well.
When I think about having children, I know I would enjoy infants and small children. But after about age 7 or so, that's the part of parenthood that I don't think I would enjoy. And especially pre-teen and the teen years. For me, when I imagine parenthood and being a mom, I tend to think about me dealing with a pre-teen or teen, and that's when I start to think that perhaps it's not for me. I don't really think about the cute infants and toddlers as much, because that time passes so quickly, and then they become rebellious, mouthy, bratty pre-teens and teens, just as I was. I know I drove my parents crazy--I was no walk in the park as a pre-teen and teen. And when I think about parenthood that's what I think about. So even as much as I know I would enjoy parenting an infant or young child, there's the pre-teen and teen years to deal with.
You are right. The infant and young years are full of a lot more of the joys and a lot less of the turmoils. My children are 19 and 15 and I can really understand where you are coming from and it is a very valid concern that you share. They are tough years and there are even times when I think "by the Grace of God and God alone, I will make it through this" LOL. But you know what, and I am not saying this to try to change your mind or convince you otherwise, as I have said it is a very personal choice that has to be entered into with due consideration, however, as as a little hope/encouragement from someone currently at that stage of parenting, along with it's struggles it also has its joys.
My teens are far from perfect and we have are disagreements about different things such as friends, dating, parties, activities, etc. But in the whole scheme of things the disagreements and the struggles are few in comparisson with the times when they are just such a joy to be around. Watching them develop into their own individual selves. Seeing them make right choices (and yes even sometimes wrong ones, but then seeing as they go learning through those wrong ones).
I've had some struggles with my kids but in the end the struggles go away and the wonderful relationship that we have developed with each other through the years remains. I've enjoyed things like my son taking me "mudding" in his jeep (almost got whiplash and not something I necessarily wanted to do but it's his world and he wanted to share it with me, how could I pass that up). I've enjoyed things like attending my daughter's games where she is a cheerleader or heading out to the mall with her and just shopping then stopping for lunch and some conversation.
Even in the teen years there are rewards and joys to reap. I am sure that if you ask your parents they will tell you that yes, you were not always easy but that they also enjoyed many aspects of your teen years. Each stage of development of a child comes with its own set of struggles and rewards. Somehow, they seem to balance out most times.
It's good that you are choosing to take the choice seriously and consider all aspects of parenting, a lot of people do just get stuck in that infancy stage, and fail to consider when that little infant starts to develop their own personality. Knowing your strengths and your shortcomings is important in making the decision.
I have never even thought of statistics in the "same breath" as having children. It seems a bit strange to me.......
If someone doesnt' want children, then so be it. Fine and dandy for you.(OP) Please don't have kids, because it takes a certain love, and soulness to care for these precious ones.
There were questions posted, and I previously answered them......
But......I'll just expand.
I not only felt the days my babies were placed in my arms as the "best" days I will ever spend on this earth......
I had the same feelings when our grandchildren were born. When I first touched them, held them, fed them......it was a pure soulful, and a height of utmost happiness.
Some may feel their wedding day was the top joy, some may feel a trip to hawaii would be their top joy. I did those, they were great, fun, enjoyable......but not compareable to the birth of a miracle child.
I know some days are hard, parents don't always have perfect days......
Kids get sick, they are up nights, they can be a big bunch of work.
But.......I wouldn't change one part of my life with any of the children.
I thank God everyday for them. I love to watch the little fellows now, their amazement of this World.....and I know they will be here to care for it.....as their grandparents before them.
The slightest hint of me having spent my time on this earth without these wonderful children and G-children......makes me quiver.
Satistics can bite the dust........
What fun, joy, or life, would that have been........quite self-centered.....and quite not me!
""Please don't have kids, because it takes a certain love, and soulness to care for these precious ones. """
Ya, we're just not as elevated as you.
"""quite self-centered"""
Ya, I was so self-centered that I thought about how the children I may or may not have would feel. Unlike parents who keep repeating how THEY feel.
Your post was clearly and observation and opinion shared. One that I would second. If someone does NOT want to be a parent then they should NOT be one. And I for one am glad for anyone that chooses NOT to be a parent when they have NO desire to be one.
I have had some experience with some of those type of parents when their children spend more time at my house than in their own house because their parents have no time for them and they like the feeling of family and home that they receive when they are here. Thankfully however, this is NOT the case for most parents. Most parents, DO actually enjoy their children and DO the best they can.
""""Here we go again with "most". How would you know what "most" parents give thought to or not? Are you at such personal and intimate levels with "most" of the world to know what they give consideration to or not. I doubt that. """
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