what would you do if your toddler put something in the stroller while shopping and didn't realize it until getting home? (husband, raise)
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But the reality is that no, someone who knowingly keeps something they didn't pay for is not a "very moral person." They are a relative moralist, who does what is convenient until it's outweighed by their morals. So a large ticket item may have felt like something that needed to be returned but a small ticket item was justifiable to keep. And that's fine, if that's the choice someone wants to make. But they don't get to say that it's not stealing because it is, regardless of the value. And they don't get to say that people who make a different choice, even when it's sometimes inconvenient, are lying.
I think where you have it wrong is you don't get to choose what is moral and what isn't, or what values other people should have. So to you not returning a pack of gum is immoral, even if taken on accident and taking it back would be a huge pain. But if I shadowed your life I would be willing to bet that you do many things that I would consider immoral. But unlike you, I bet I would find a spot of grace for you and not judge so harshly.
I'm pretty done with this conversation. I have said my peace, gotten my rep points for being honest and am walking out of this Sunday school classroom.
I think where you have it wrong is you don't get to choose what is moral and what isn't, or what values other people should have. So to you not returning a pack of gum is immoral, even if taken on accident and taking it back would be a huge pain. But if I shadowed your life I would be willing to bet that you do many things that I would consider immoral. But unlike you, I bet I would find a spot of grace for you and not judge so harshly.
I'm pretty done with this conversation. I have said my peace, gotten my rep points for being honest and am walking out of this Sunday school classroom.
I've never claimed to be perfect. I'm sure I've done things you would disagree with and perhaps even consider immoral. But unlike you, I haven't told people who made a different choice than me that they had to have been lying about it.
OK, so you acknowledge that you have a moral obligation to return things even if taken accidentally. Therefore it isn't about intent it is about the actions.
I don't understand how the second half is relevant to your supposition about intent.
I'm not sure why we're having such trouble communicating. Maybe it's me.
Intent has everything in the world to do with how you handle a child taking something from a store.
If it's a 2 year old, and the item is of little value, you put the item on the hall table and take it back next time you're in the area.
If it's a 4 year old, there's a lesson to be taught here along with the return of the item. You need to react differently, due to the intent of the 4 year old to purposely take something that doesn't belong to him, unlike the 2 year old who doesn't understand that concept.
So the action that's different is the immediacy of going back to the store, and the necessity of involving the 4 year old in the process of making things right.
I've only read the first and last pages. I normally don't post a comment unless I have read the whole thread. But I'm going to simply say that it would be so easy to rectify the problem the next time you're at that store. No need for an extra trip back the very same day, just whenever you're in the area, you stop in and pay for the item that was "accidentally stolen." Seems like a complete no-brainer to me, but I read enough responses to see that some people would just pocket the item at the store's expense.
Hard not to be snarky when people are essentially accusing you of being an immoral thief. What about going 5 mph over the speed limit. I am sure if you take back a pack of gum then you never go over the speed limit, or not use your turn signal, etc.
What does speeding have to do with stealing? They're not in any way comparable.
I think where you have it wrong is you don't get to choose what is moral and what isn't, or what values other people should have. So to you not returning a pack of gum is immoral, even if taken on accident and taking it back would be a huge pain. But if I shadowed your life I would be willing to bet that you do many things that I would consider immoral. But unlike you, I bet I would find a spot of grace for you and not judge so harshly.
I'm pretty done with this conversation. I have said my peace, gotten my rep points for being honest and am walking out of this Sunday school classroom.
Oh, how marvelous, you got repped. And you got those reps by dissing those of us who don't differentiate between pocketing something based on the price tag. You were the one judging harshly.
What does speeding have to do with stealing? They're not in any way comparable.
Well, in both cases you're doing something wrong. Having your toddler filch a $1 toy from the dollar store is way less dangerous than going 45 in a 35 zone. Way less expensive, too. It's only reasonable to report to the police station and confess your crime if it's non-negotiable to return the beanbag or whatever.
I've accidentally stolen pens from doctors offices. I take their pen to fill out the chart and then while I'm putting my insurance card away, I tend to toss the pen in my purse as well. My daughters cardiologist is 90 miles away. Would I turn around and drive back to return a pen? No. We go every three months. Is it likely that I'd remember to find the pen and return it three months later? No.
That's just an example. I'm pretty sure all of their stuff is electronic so there's no way I could have stolen one of their pens. But nothing is black and white and if it's going to cost the store $2 to pay their employ to spend 10 minutes processing the return of a 50-cent pack of gum that a one-year-old grabbed off the shelf (and that will be tossed anyway, because they can't sell a pack if gum that's been manhandled by a grubby baby) , then it's counterproductive to waste their time.
But nothing is black and white and if it's going to cost the store $2 to pay their employ to spend 10 minutes processing the return of a 50-cent pack of gum that a one-year-old grabbed off the shelf (and that will be tossed anyway, because they can't sell a pack if gum that's been manhandled by a grubby baby) , then it's counterproductive to waste their time.
It doesnt take 10 minutes to give an employee a pack of gum. Since it wasnt paid for, there is no return to process. It takes less than one minute to do. Even if it took longer, the employee is getting paid no matter what. Its not like stores only pay their employees for the time they are physically interacting with a customer.
And no, they wouldn't throw away a pack of gum just because a baby touched it. Gum packets are wrapped in plastic, and then the gum itself is wrapped in paper/foil inside of a paper container. The gum is safe.
My daughter did that once or twice. I just went back to the store, returned the item to the cashier, and apologized for the mistake. No harm done. (I think once the lady even told her she could keep it. lol )
Kids do that kind of stuff. They don't know better. The best thing you can do is be a good role model by bringing it back ( with them, not for them).
I asked my mother when I was a child if I could have a piece of candy. She said yes, so I took a piece and put it in my pocket. When my mom found out when we got home, she took me right back to the store and made me return it. She also asked to the store manager make me sweep the front of the store to teach me a lesson.
I guess it worked, I never took anything again without making sure it was paid for first.
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