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And you are watching all of them and keeping track of "latching on" problems?
Uh, you do realize this is a well known issue in multiple species, and any veterinarian (especially one that works with larger animals) could attest to it?
Nobodysbusiness, I'm kind of surprised that posters are being so mean about your curiosity about this.
I was surprised when I had my kids in the 90's that my hospital offered a 3 hour class to pregnant women on breastfeeding. I went to it, because I was really excited about motherhood and wanted to be around other pregnant women, as did other pregnant women.
My experience? Stick your boob in the baby's mouth, and you're good to go. That's how you do it.
(My own mother, and my sister and niece didn't produce enough breast milk to nourish a baby, which is something you recognize quite quickly and thankfully we now have commercially produced infant formula. So there is that). And of course there are mothers with obvious nipple anomalies.
Otherwise, babies who can't get nourishment from their mothers are a serious concern. It used to be called "poor suck", and also "failure to thrive". And it's an indicator of a serious concern in the baby, cognitively. If the mother was producing enough nourishing milk, and her nipples were average shape, and yet the baby was not thriving, it's a serious concern about the baby that goes well beyond breastfeeding issues.
FTR is still a thing, and "poor suck" usually refers to suck coordination. New-ish research, as of '08-09 points to various classes of tongue ties, especially posterior, and lip ties, as a major contributor to breastfeeding difficulties, including latching, leading to insufficient milk transfer and low milk production as the baby can not properly stimulate it by nursing efficiently. This is often the cause of "not enough milk."
My second son was born with an anterior and posterior tongue tie, and labial lip tie. They were later revised, but it was a huge struggle as there were so few peds and LCs familiar with posterior ties (anterior ties are easier to notice, posterior ties often go undiagnosed that results in stopping breastfeeding). At the time of his birth there were a few peds on the entire East Coast familiar with new research on tongue ties and a few ENTs. I happened to live in a major city with two of the ENTs and the IBCLC that was an expert on tongue ties and their affect on breastfeeding and other issues later in childhood (speech, dental).
And, no, FTR doesn't necessary point to a "cognitive" issue. Some babies have very serious issues related to intolerance, allergies, others screened for during the newborn screening, but those are often caught early on. My son's FTR diagnosis was all due to his inability to transfer milk efficiently. I also experienced true low milk supply as a result. It took months of pumping, using the SNS, working on suck coordination, before successfully returning to nursing for more than night feedings. An exhausting process with lots of tears and frustration, but thankfully I had a wonderful support system and he was able to nurse for 21 months.
My 4.5 month old also has a tongue and lip tie that needs revising, but his case is not nearly as severe as his older brother's.
There are a number of things that can affect milk production and supply. I had a severe hemorrhage with my 3.5 year old. That led to severe anemia and low milk supply. She lost a lot of weight and would have been declared FTT if I hadn't used donor milk and formula.
FTR is still a thing, and "poor suck" usually refers to suck coordination. New-ish research, as of '08-09 points to various classes of tongue ties, especially posterior, and lip ties, as a major contributor to breastfeeding difficulties, including latching, leading to insufficient milk transfer and low milk production as the baby can not properly stimulate it by nursing efficiently. This is often the cause of "not enough milk."
My second son was born with an anterior and posterior tongue tie, and labial lip tie. They were later revised, but it was a huge struggle as there were so few peds and LCs familiar with posterior ties (anterior ties are easier to notice, posterior ties often go undiagnosed that results in stopping breastfeeding). At the time of his birth there were a few peds on the entire East Coast familiar with new research on tongue ties and a few ENTs. I happened to live in a major city with two of the ENTs and the IBCLC that was an expert on tongue ties and their affect on breastfeeding and other issues later in childhood (speech, dental).
And, no, FTR doesn't necessary point to a "cognitive" issue. Some babies have very serious issues related to intolerance, allergies, others screened for during the newborn screening, but those are often caught early on. My son's FTR diagnosis was all due to his inability to transfer milk efficiently. I also experienced true low milk supply as a result. It took months of pumping, using the SNS, working on suck coordination, before successfully returning to nursing for more than night feedings. An exhausting process with lots of tears and frustration, but thankfully I had a wonderful support system and he was able to nurse for 21 months.
My 4.5 month old also has a tongue and lip tie that needs revising, but his case is not nearly as severe as his older brother's.
There are a number of things that can affect milk production and supply. I had a severe hemorrhage with my 3.5 year old. That led to severe anemia and low milk supply. She lost a lot of weight and would have been declared FTT if I hadn't used donor milk and formula.
Wow. That all sounds very stressful.
I had never heard of "lip tie" issues. I wonder how common that is.
I am curious about the "not producing enough milk" claim - In one of the links I was reading, it said that some people are kind of ignorant about that issue - went on to explain that breastfeeding babies have to feed frequently to get their nourishment and keep milk supply up. I am speculating that perhaps during the Dr. Spock era when mothers were told to keep their babies on a four hour schedule, babies would not have been getting enough nourishment (and mom's milk wouldn't be optimum).
Oh, it's popular among certain circles to shame --and that's not a word I use lightly or frequently -- mothers who fail to produce enough milk by telling them they are doing something wrong. The idea that all women can successfully feed their babies with nothing but their own milk is very much pushed by militant breastfeeding groups.
I was one of the not inconsiderable number of women who couldn't produce enough, and there were physical reasons for that. I did have some milk, just not enough. I had to supplement.
You can google and find recent stories of new mothers who were so brainwashed by the statements that every woman can produce enough milk, and that babies should be exclusively breastfed no matter what, that they failed to recognize signs of dehydration and starvation in their own babies. Some of those babies died.
I am curious about the "not producing enough milk" claim - In one of the links I was reading, it said that some people are kind of ignorant about that issue - went on to explain that breastfeeding babies have to feed frequently to get their nourishment and keep milk supply up. I am speculating that perhaps during the Dr. Spock era when mothers were told to keep their babies on a four hour schedule, babies would not have been getting enough nourishment (and mom's milk wouldn't be optimum).
Yep. This is a good way to dry up supply. If you don't use it, you lose it, and the average a baby takes in a feeding is 2-3 ounces every 2-3 hours to maintain supply. Stretching out to 4 hours? Holy crap. Breastmilk is digested and absorbed much faster than formula, so babies often are hungry after just 2-3 hours or even less depending on other factors. Formula takes longer to digest, thus sits in the stomach longer, which prolongs satiety.
Oh, it's popular among certain circles to shame --and that's not a word I use lightly or frequently -- mothers who fail to produce enough milk by telling them they are doing something wrong. The idea that all women can successfully feed their baby with nothing but their own milk is very much pushed by militant breastfeeding groups.
I was one of the not inconsiderable women who couldn't produce enough, and there were physical reasons for that. I did have some milk, just not enough. I had to supplement.
You can google and find recent stories of new mothers who were so brainwashed by the statements that every woman can produce enough milk, and that babies should be exclusively breastfed no matter what, that they failed to recognize signs of dehydration and starvation in their own babies. Some of those babies died.
Yep. This is a good way to dry up supply. If you don't use it, you lose it, and the average a baby takes in a feeding is 2-3 ounces every 2-3 hours to maintain supply. Stretching out to 4 hours? Holy crap. Breastmilk is digested and absorbed much faster than formula, so babies often are hungry after just 2-3 hours or even less depending on other factors. Formula takes longer to digest, thus sits in the stomach longer, which prolongs satiety.
I agree.
I don't know why, but I seemed to have just known this - no one taught me - when the baby cried, it was changed and fed.
I had never heard of "lip tie" issues. I wonder how common that is.
Lip ties can prevent a sufficient suction and seal during latching. This can lead to baby sucking in air or popping/slipping off frequently during feeds. Tongue ties impede the tongue's full range of movement that's needed to massage the milk ducts. The two are often seen together. Lip ties can lead to taking in more air and this can cause reflux issues.
I am curious about the "not producing enough milk" claim - In one of the links I was reading, it said that some people are kind of ignorant about that issue - went on to explain that breastfeeding babies have to feed frequently to get their nourishment and keep milk supply up. I am speculating that perhaps during the Dr. Spock era when mothers were told to keep their babies on a four hour schedule, babies would not have been getting enough nourishment (and mom's milk wouldn't be optimum).
I'm one of those Dr Spock mothers who tried to get my daughter to a four hour schedule and never quite did it. Thankfully, I had common-sense support from my saintly and beloved mother-in-law who had borne 12 children and nursed them all successfully. I also found the La Leche League to be a great resource.
Apparently, despite Dr Spock's advice, or perhaps because I didn't follow it well, my daughter did thrive. I had all the usual kinds of beginning problems, but was very determined and my daughter did very well on breast milk alone for nearly 5 months, at which time I began to give her appropriate baby food to supplement the breast milk. I breast fed her for nine months, by which time the "girls" had begun to not produce milk as well as in the beginning. MIL had usually nursed for a year or so before beginning to supplement. I've always thought my adding baby food supplement when I did, had direct correlation to the dwindling milk supply.
Anyway, hope this is helpful to you in some way. Yours is an interesting thread and I'm nonplussed as to why some are resentful and angry.
Yours is an interesting thread and I'm nonplussed as to why some are resentful and angry. .
Maybe it was some or all of the following. All of these statements struck me as inflammatory or offensive, so I'm not surprised at the reactions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness
I'm pretty sure all mammals breastfeed instinctually, so what in the world could the problem be that would affect so many moms/babies?
It just seems crazy to me.
It really is quite simple and self-explanatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness
It never used to be a problem.
And it's an instinctual process - so "most people" should be able to do it without a hitch (say 99%)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness
I was just wondering what was wrong with today's babies that they have such a hard time "latching on." Just seems really weird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness
Breastfeeding is instinctual and all animals do it.
There is no biological reason why a preponderance of babies wouldn't be able to do it easily - that would go against nature and the species would eventually die out due to some genetic mutation or malfunction.
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Thankfully, I had common-sense support from my saintly and beloved mother-in-law who had borne 12 children and nursed them all successfully. I also found the La Leche League to be a great resource. 
