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Just sticking to the facts as you portray them, if vaccines work for the vast majority, that vast majority have nothing to fear from those that are not vaccinated.
That efficacy argument cuts both ways and many that are pro vaccine don't acknowledge the obvious.
In general, the fully vaccinated have little to "fear" themselves from the unvaccinated. But some of us are concerned about our fellow travelers.
Babies do not finish the primary series of polio vaccine until age 4 months; DTaP, Hep B, Hib, pneumococcal and rotavirus until 6 months. They can't receive their first flu vaccine until age 6 months, and then they need a booster a month later. (This is all assuming they get the vaccines on time, and the parents don't do some silly "spacing" of vaccines which has no scientific basis.)
There are the boosters of all but Hep B needed at 1 year.
MMR, chickenpox, Hepatitis A can't be given until age 1; Meningitis vaccine is not given until age 11, ditto HPV. MMR and chickenpox boosters are generally given at kindergarten entry.
Some few people do have medical reasons for not being able to get vaccines, and some few don't get full immunity. Some people undergoing cancer chemo have their immunity knocked out and are vulnerable, despite having been vaccinated in the past. We all owe it to others to get immunized if we can.
Bear in mind that most vaccines are given only a few times in a lifetime. Compared to an advertised patented diabetes drug such as Invokana witch is taken daily for life at $15.00 _per pill_. Over a 20 year period that amounts to over $100,000.00 !
So:
Measles, Mumps and Rubella (MMR) [1] M-M-R®II 00006-4681-00 10 pack – 1 dose vial $21.05 $70.92 03/31/2019 Merck
A 10 pack MMR for at most $70.92 or $7.09 per dose, given only once. Or Invokana at $15.00 a pill, given every day for life.
The real reason that big pharma is pushing vaccines is that they make all their money off of rich old people. People who are vaccinated as children stand a better chance of growing up to some day be rich old people.
I understand that you are speaking for yourself here, which is cool. But many that are pro vaccination actually do fear those that are not- even when they are not one of the vulnerable that you reference. Most notable example is parents of healthy school age kids.
I was "present at the creation" of the chickenpox vaccine. Many parents had such misconceptions. Certainly, when it came out, no one knew how long it would last, though it had been used in Japan since 1988 (approved in the US in 1995) and the original vaccinees were still immune with no diminution of immunity. I never heard this 10-15 years stuff professionally (or from any other source); it must have been an urban legend circulating in your area. If it turned out that immunity decreased over time, the solution would have been a booster dose. We now have a booster dose, not because of waning immunity but because one dose doesn't confer immunity in everyone.
My children were very young in 1995 and were literally among the first offered the vaccine given their ages. Our very well respected pediatrician gave me the option of having them immunized at that time. The 10-15 year idea came directly from him. That was the information being circulated to doctors at the time. He and I had a long discussion about it: pros/cons. He also happened to have children exactly the same age as mine.
Having known myself in college, I knew that once they reached their teens/college age they might not go for a booster or a new vaccine. I didn't want to risk them getting chickenpox as adults. No one at that time really mentioned anything about shingles. I might have made a different decision if that was the case then.
BTW--To put his skills and knowledge into perspective: he was one of the first doctor's warning about the overuse of antibiotics. Many times I took my daughter in for a visit because she was experiencing symptoms of an ear infection. There were quite a few times he wouldn't prescribe her antibiotics that day, and I would have to return a few days later. There were no antibiotics prescribed for symptoms that many of the other doctors at the time would prescribe for--at least according to the numerous mothers I knew at the time.
Bear in mind that most vaccines are given only a few times in a lifetime. Compared to an advertised patented diabetes drug such as Invokana witch is taken daily for life at $15.00 _per pill_. Over a 20 year period that amounts to over $100,000.00 !
So:
Measles, Mumps and Rubella (MMR) [1] M-M-R®II 00006-4681-00 10 pack – 1 dose vial $21.05 $70.92 03/31/2019 Merck
A 10 pack MMR for at most $70.92 or $7.09 per dose, given only once. Or Invokana at $15.00 a pill, given every day for life.
Yeah, they'd much rather sell a cholesterol med than a one time dose at $8.00.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
In general, the fully vaccinated have little to "fear" themselves from the unvaccinated. But some of us are concerned about our fellow travelers.
Bingo, the young and the sick are the concern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic
It is exactly this type of post that leads me to be very weary of vaccines. Someone in favor of vaccines should have no problem whatsoever with those that don't vaccinate. If the vaccines really work, the vaccinated have nothing to worry about..
Individually, selfishly, it makes no more difference than your choices about exercise or whether or not you smoke. But, on a more philosophical scale, it changes.
People are more worried about spreading disinformation, and those who willingly spread such disinformation. Would you feel similarly about a Holocaust denier, Birther, 9/11 Conspiracy theorist, etc? A Vax denier is more dangerous, as he isn't spreading misinformation about a closed chapter of history, he's spreading that has the potential to do real harm.
And for many positions, the job in and of itself requires you to use data to make decisions. Can someone be trusted to make the best decisions based on the data they have, if they deny something so well studied?
I remember a Lab Director (medical lab) that jumped down the throat of a customer service rep about just such a thing. She was yapping about it in the lunchroom...Director told her to can it or pack her things; such opinions were damaging in a profession and business that prided itself on the quality of its processes and data...
The Center for Disease Control has a committee called the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. They put together the "recommended vaccine schedule". A vaccine only makes it onto the vaccine schedule if this committee which is comprised of scientists, doctors, and even lay people votes to put it there. This is a great deal of expertise and frankly it counts for more than someone like you saying "they aren't all needed".
Because of vaccines we not only have eliminated polio, we have controlled diptheria, whooping cough, measles, mumps, and rubella. Many have forgotten that because of vaccination small pox was totally eliminated as a disease decades ago.
Vaccines are the greatest public health achievement in this world. Tens of thousands of people are alive today who would be dead if it were not for vaccination.
It is exactly this type of post that leads me to be very weary of vaccines. Someone in favor of vaccines should have no problem whatsoever with those that don't vaccinate. If the vaccines really work, the vaccinated have nothing to worry about.
Your reasoning on the flu vaccine is faulty as well. But I am sorry about your friend.
Bear in mind that most vaccines are given only a few times in a lifetime. Compared to an advertised patented diabetes drug such as Invokana witch is taken daily for life at $15.00 _per pill_. Over a 20 year period that amounts to over $100,000.00 !
So:
Measles, Mumps and Rubella (MMR) [1] M-M-R®II 00006-4681-00 10 pack – 1 dose vial $21.05 $70.92 03/31/2019 Merck
A 10 pack MMR for at most $70.92 or $7.09 per dose, given only once. Or Invokana at $15.00 a pill, given every day for life.
But the patent for pills expires and then generic versions can be introduced. The patents on vaccines are protected by different intellectual property laws and don't really expire. So there will be a generic version of Invokana eventually, meaning the manufacturer will lose a substantial market share, as most insurance companies will require generic. But the pharmaceutical companies reap all the profits on vaccines they develop pretty much forever. So actually vaccines are more profitable for them in the long run.
Ironically, the number of vaccines required suddenly increased pretty dramatically when the intellectual property law regarding this was changed, making the vaccines more profitable. I hardly think it's a coincidence.
So, these vaccines are not needed, but you have no facts to support that?
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