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Yes, strict parents often produce misbehaving kids.
That's where the term "military brat" comes from. Military parents are notorious for being strict, and their kids are notorious for being brats outside of the supervision of the parents.
Also, the preachers daughter cultural reputation. She goes off to college and look out.
The bold is an urban legend.
Back in my childhood, there were two Catholic schools that sent went to 8th grade, then the kids had to either go to a Catholic high school out of town (not boarding) or go to the public schools. We in the public school always joked that the Catholic school kids were so "wild", but the reality was they were pretty much just like us.
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Originally Posted by craigiri
It all sounds like what I am talking about in the above post(s)....that is, forbidden fruit and rebellion. Your sons religion is probably the result of abusive ex and/or a combo of that and your rebelling against your own upbringing.
Back when we were hippies (ha ha), I knew a very wise man who said "We try to raise our kids right...and peaceful....so when they grow up they won't go out and cut their hair and rebel and join the rat race"......
And it made a lot of sense. In the USA we are constantly correcting from the sins of the past. Sooner of later we have to settle down to a "way of life" that is not reactionary.
I always liked a couple of those CSN songs like.....
Teach...your children well...their fathers HELL, did surely go by......
and
Our House......
The former generations were hugely affected by WWII and the Depression, etc......after that came the CounterCulture, Nixon, Vietnam, Civil Rights, JFK - MLK- RFK, etc.......so it's not like we've had a really nice "settled down" situation...ever!
That old meme (bold). Her son's religion may just be because that's a religion he is comfortable with.
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Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
Absolutely. I went to a small Methodist college. The PKs (Preacher's kids) were the ones who were always the wildest. Likewise the girls I dated with the strictest parents were, once they were away from their parents, like a bird out of a cage. I remember a beach trip in a group that had several PKs. It was the most stressful week of my life, because I was constantly worrying about several girls who were enjoying their very first bit of freedom and, by God, they were going to enjoy every nanosecond.
Mind you, I don't believe in being permissive. But there is such a thing as being so unrelentingly strict that the kids can't wait for a taste of freedom. When you uphold something such as alcohol and sex as the end-all, be-all, sine qua non of forbidden fruit, then it becomes a goal, unconsciously an emblem of adulthood.
One of the biggest beefs I have with our education system is that it forces children to be children long after they have become adults. A century, teenagers were marrying, having responsible jobs, and starting families. Today, we can't trust them to rent a car. To me, the epiphany came when my wife and I were watching Ken Burns' The War. Basically we were listening to the experiences of 18- and 19-year olds who were fighting, building roads, flying aircraft, and generally having to shoulder enormous responsibilities.
Meanwhile, among some of my kids' college-aged friends, there are some whose parents don't let them do anything. My daughter is in graduate school. Her roommate is also in grad school. The girl is about to be married and her parents still track her on her mobile phone. I am not kidding you.
I think the best parents I've observed are the ones who are more concerned with principles than rules. Principles on how you behave and what is not permitted. Rules are hard and fast, while principles are flexible to accommodate most situations.
As far as your side question is concerned, I don't think your assumption is correct. I think overly strict parents are seen as being just as harmful as the overly lenient ones.
The PK meme has been around a long time. I've known quite a few. Again, they're just like the rest of us. There is a lot of research that shows "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree", IOW, most kids end up somewhat like their parents.
What I see is a lot of confirmation bias here about strict parents. I think this is more the answer:
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Originally Posted by Kibbiekat
I've seen it go both ways.
I have too! I don't want to go into details, to protect the privacy of the people I've observed, but yes. I've seen kids from both liberal and conservative parents have unintended pregnancies, fail to launch successfully and the like. And I'm not talking about successfully meaning being a CEO by 40 or whatever, I'm talking about being self supporting. One kid of liberal parents died of a drug overdose in his 20s.
In my near 4 decades of being a parent in affluent suburbs/sections of a city I can state in my experience within that demographic I have seen it about 50/50; lousy, lackadaisical parents producing stellar, striving children and diligent, structured parents producing lazy lowlifes.
None of my 4 gave me a whit of trouble and all are successful adults but we laugh over the fact that the least compliant/needed most discipline child of the lot, about whom I had concerns as a child due to her behavior (compared to the others), turned out the best and most impressive of all in the end and is now my favorite.
I knew many when I was a teenager... some of my MOST rebellious friends were the ones with the strictest parents! My parents were pretty lax, and while I got into my fair share of trouble, I was much more honest with them than some of my friends (with their parents). So even when I was up to no good, they usually knew about it.
My friends with the strict parents, on the other hand, were much more sneaky and manipulative. One of them even squeezed through a dog door to sneak out one time! And since we grew up before the age of cell phones, it was even scarier for a parent to not know where their kid was; so if I were the parent, I’d rather at least have an idea of where they went & what they did. Good or bad.
Some problem kids result from parents who simply aren't paying attention. And who fall for their kids' lies, but that's also due to not paying attention to detail--to the contradictions between the lies, or between lies and behavior, or whatever. Or maybe the parents are narcissists, so they're generally oblivious anyway, and don't care, except to be strict in a superficial way.
Some problem kids result from parents who simply aren't paying attention. And who fall for their kids' lies, but that's also due to not paying attention to detail--to the contradictions between the lies, or between lies and behavior, or whatever. Or maybe the parents are narcissists, so they're generally oblivious anyway, and don't care, except to be strict in a superficial way.
It seems on this forum that people believe a lot that liberal parenting produces degenerate children almost always but I wonder if the opposite can be true. Can a parent who is too strict create a child who actually "rebels" and becomes disrespectful towards others, engaging in violent criminal behavior, mentally unstable and depraved.
I heard a lot of serial killers and mass murderers actually come from pretty strict abusive parents. Now I know that a lot don't but I wonder if they had different parents (and different genetics) would they be normal.
Side question, why do you think society forgets about the strict parents that produced bad children and only looks at the liberal ones.
I do know one very sad story.
We knew a couple that raised two sons. Mom and Dad were strict Southern Baptists. There was a great deal of regimentation in the way they raised their boys. The list of things they could not do was very long. Youngest son was rebellious. He started by staying out late with his friends. I know they tried a series of punishments with him, but nothing worked. He started to drink by the time he was sixteen. By eighteen, he started using drugs. Out of frustration, they threw him out of their home. One day, they got a call from the police. Their youngest son had died of a drug overdose at the age of nineteen.
Its easy to point fingers and find fault. Having raised two very different children, I'm reluctant to do so.
However, I do think a necessary part of growing up for kids is to be allowed to do new things. I think keeping too tight a lid on them leads to rebellion. I think I would have handled things differently than they did. However, I stop short of saying the outcome would have been different. There are so many unknowns when it comes to raising kids.
Degenerate kids can happen with loose and strict parents.
Bingo. You do your best but you never know how kids will turn out. I know a guy who is a high ranking military official and had a son who wanted nothing to do with the military, pretty much comes off a hipster. You would think he would follow in his fathers footsteps but that's not always the case. Hell, even rich and famous people have crazy kids (Donald Trump's brother died of alcoholism/drugs IIRC).
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Originally Posted by ClaraC
Also, the preachers daughter cultural reputation. She goes off to college and look out.
Yup, some adult film actresses come from strict and conservative households. They tend to act wild to "make up for lost timing."
My household was a mix of both and me and my sister turned out just fine.
Bingo. You do your best but you never know how kids will turn out. I know a guy who is a high ranking military official and had a son who wanted nothing to do with the military, pretty much comes off a hipster. You would think he would follow in his fathers footsteps but that's not always the case. Hell, even rich and famous people have crazy kids (Donald Trump's brother died of alcoholism/drugs IIRC).
I'm not sure how "hipster" equites to "crazy", defined in part as a potential substance abuser. Hipster is a fashion choice, not a moral failure. Hipster kids can be very bright and creative. Some are concerned about some of the leading problems of the day, and contribute in their own way.
And part of the problem, IMO, is parents who expect their kids to follow in their footsteps, or be clones of themselves. Kids tend to be very much their own people, with their own interests, inclinations, and talents. This is not a bad thing per se.
The kids I see going wrong are mostly from uninvolved parents. Or abusive parents.
Not strict or loose or whatever.
Like I said, anything bad, blame the parents.
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