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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 7 days ago)
35,626 posts, read 17,961,729 times
Reputation: 50650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clawsondude
I don't really want him to embrace my personally philosophy, I want him to learn to think for himself. And it isn't just me who is an atheist, as I stated, he is an atheist. There is no way that at 5 years old his brain is mature enough to evaluate a religious argument for a god. Once he is older he can look at these arguments on his own. Unfortunately affirming the BSA oath predisposes him to belief.
You are right, it could potentially be a hard conversation. I am realizing it will be necessary. Of course he is 5 so the excitement over Scouts could be forgotten by next week
By that argument, a 5 year old is probably also not old enough to swear allegiance and duty to the USA, as they really don't have clear understanding of the other countries out there they might prefer.
Did you read through what he has to attest to? He'd have to agree to do his duty to his country, and be obedient, and thrifty. And brave. And clean. He has to swear that he will be clean.
Maybe he also doesn't want to be those things and he's too young to make up his mind about that too?
I feel for you on this one. It's one of the reasons I never had children. I felt very conflicted growing up. I went to a pre-school at a church for two years - my extended family is heavily religious. For whatever reason, my parents stopped going to church and taking us, but I still attended when I was visiting my grandparents and occasionally with friends. I am not sure when I stopped agreeing with anything in church, but I know I was young. Young enough that I can't recall ever believing in God. I went to church with them to be a good sport, but it really just made me more against organized religion. It turned into a social thing - churches recruiting members based off the social aspect and field trips. I felt left out at times but I was not about to pretend to be religious just for that. My husband, on the other hand, did. I'd consider him an Agnostic more than an atheist, so perhaps he did not feel as strongly. He says he just went to get to go on the trips to Six Flags. I find it all dishonest and insulting to that faith.
I knew that I would be conflicted if I had a child. As strongly as I believe in allowing them to decide for themselves anything having to do with spirituality, I know I would have a very difficult time if they wanted to explore the Christian religion. Can't exactly say I want you to have the freedom to choose, but only if your answer matches mine. And at the same time, what if my child did choose to be an atheist like me, but wasn't as timid as I was. I hated standing for the pledge and the prayers before sporting events, but I chose to just be silent and not make a scene. What if my child wanted to make a big deal out of it. Could I handle that and support them? It's hard being different.
So, for something like this, I would be very conflicted. If he doesn't believe in God because he truly doesn't believe in God or because he doesn't know about God, how could he say those pledges? I feel like I would be teaching him dishonesty and it would be disrespecting their pledge. Would I be comfortable with him learning religious things there - would I just let him go along with it or would I have to go into my own lesson that maybe contradicted everything said. Therefore, I would not want my son to participate in such an activity, but I would feel sorry for him if it turned into something where most of the class did it and he felt excluded.
He says he just went to get to go on the trips to Six Flags. I find it all dishonest and insulting to that faith.
It is, and I appreciate that you have acknowleged that.
For people who DO believe in God, to see all the suggestions to "just say you do believe so you get to participate" is hard to take. That's why I asked, "How badly does the kid want to go camping?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by aa6660
It's hard being different.
Yes it is, and the OP is having his own beliefs tested. As adults we can mostly cruise through our days in a grey area, not having to take a stand, but this is one time where he has to, and it sucks.
See, in my mind there is no conversation to have with him. At this point he has no concept of god or any idea of what religion is because, as I said, it simply isn't a topic in our house. I don't expect that my son will not believe in god, I know that at this point he does not. If he chooses to when he is older that is his decision.
Yes, if he really pushes to join I will have to explain this to him. The problem is that he is so young I don't think he will be able to understand what the issue is. Any suggestions on how to put it in five year old terms? Simply say that the organization requires belief in things we don't believe in?
Here's my take. It seems like you are limiting your son based on your beliefs that you hope to pass onto your son. He is five years old right now. Chances are, during his growing up process he will encounter friends of different beliefs than yours and be exposed to those beliefs. He might be staying overnight at a friend's house and be invited to join them at church the next morning. He might be at a friend's house and be exposed to prayer if they say a blessing at mealtime.
I am not trying to be harsh but it seems like the problem is more with you being offended if he takes the cub scout pledge than with your son being offended if he joins the group and participates in the pledge because he is too young to be offended or take a stand. You even said that you did not feel strongly until your teenage years.
If it were my kid, I would let him be exposed to other thoughts and beliefs. If he wants to join cub scouts and take the pledge let him do it. When he gets old enough to question it, tell him your beliefs and why but let him know that he is free to believe as he chooses even if it does not agree with your beliefs and values. At that point, he might feel uncomfortable taking the pledge moving forward but that would be because of his choice and/or beliefs rather than those you are introducing him to before he is really old enough to understand.
I get where you are coming from because I think every parent wants their kid to have the same or similar beliefs and values but this is really something he needs the freedom to decide himself when he is older rather than be limited when he is young. If it makes you feel better, some people who are atheist or agnostic become that way because they become that way through disillusionment with religious organizations they were forced to be a part of growing up. You might actually have a better chance of having your son share your beliefs if they are not forced on him or presented as the only option from an early age.
As an atheist, I wouldn't do it. Why lie? And what if they found out? Just not worth it.
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