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It's cool, I knew (because I've been in this forum before) that some of the posters are pretty much here to try and make any parent, no matter what they are doing, feel torn down. I think some folks just like to try and be mean to others on the internet, not sure what's behind that impulse but I'm not surprised to catch some of that energy here.
But let's just get this out of the way, "Yeah, yeah, my kids are not perfect specimens of golden perfection. I'm divorced. This must mean I am a horrible mother. Gosh, what would I do without strangers on the internet to tell me what a terrible mom I am and how my kid will surely end up in the gutter or my basement or whatever. " OK? We good now? ...
To those of you being genuine and awesome and showing some compassion, hey, THANK YOU--you rock.
Honestly, I reflect on how I didn't expect this stage, when they're almost independent and just needing to knock out a few particular goals to get there, as the HARDEST PART...but I am finding it that way. Yeah, babies need you all the time and everything, but it's pretty straightforward with what needs done. And babies don't make questionable life choices. lol
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Originally Posted by ClaraC
I don't see your son as being all that much of a problem. You say he's not into drugs (which I'm not sure of, not sure how you know that).
He's working on his GED. You don't say anything about his father, but you have a boyfriend, so his dad is not in the home.
You dislike her a lot, but apparently she's still in school and will graduate in May, and her parents have forbidden her seeing your son. So that's their perspective.
He's you son, for heaven's sake. He's not perfect, but he's not the worst son I've ever heard of.
He could really use some unconditional love and support, IMHO.
Been there, done that, raised 3 sons and wasn't proud of them every phase of their lives. They're all doing great now as adults.
I really don't understand the desire to "put him out" when he's 18. It seems you've never experienced fierce parental love, so maybe since it hasn't been modeled for you, you don't understand how powerful it is.
I know what drugs he has ever tried, when he tried them, how he feels about it, what his access to them was at that time, etc. My son talks to me. He tells me pretty much everything. On the rare occasions he tries to get away with something, I tend to be able to tell when he is lying to me and even if I say nothing about it, he confesses within a day or two. He doesn't like lying, and he doesn't like keeping secrets from me. Because he knows I'm generally supportive to him and I love him and want to give advice, guidance, and help as best I can.
I will NOT however raise his child. I have objectives and responsibilities in my life other than my kids. Such as older relatives who will need care, too. None of them are MORE important than my kids while my kids are minors and before they're on their feet in the adult world. But I will not have a 25 or 30 year old son living in my house expecting me to parent his children. If that makes me a bad Mom to you, you can go ahead and think it.
I don't want to put him out of my home at age 18. But I told him that if you walk all over people and violate their boundaries (such as mine, to keep the girlfriend out of my home because I don't need to deal with her drama) then you cannot expect them to just give and give and to keep making them feel USED. I think that's a lesson he needs to learn.
I do unconditionally love and support him, but I don't support bad decisions when I see them happening. I'm not going to give him everything he has a whim to have just because he wants it.
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Originally Posted by Listener2307
That's the problem. Right there. You are not talking to the parents of the girl your son is sleeping with. That puts the kids solidly in control. They can tell you anything they want.
It's like "Twilight Zone" where they control the picture.
It will not improve until you step up to the plate and talk to the other parents.
I've spoken to her parents in the past. We have some disconnects. So you say talk to her parents, and if they decide to go ahead and throw her out because they found out she lied about seeing my kid (she is an adult, they CAN do this) and then the girl is homeless, and my son is begging to let her stay with us so she doesn't sleep on the street or hole up with one of her sketchy friends...then what? I let her? Or I say no and strain things with my kid?
I don't KNOW if they'd throw her out or not but they can. I do know they plan to move to another city and leave her behind within weeks of her graduation whether she has somewhere to go, or not. She has put them through hell, and they've been abusive at times too (from what she says and my perception from talking to them confirms.)
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Originally Posted by BirdieBelle
... if she's as bad as she's been portrayed, her parents won't be much help.
The most alarming part to me was that your son doesn't seem to have any dealbreakers.
This girl has violated his human decency multiple times, in horrible ways. Yet he continues to allow her in his life. That does not bode well for his ability to stand up for himself or to set boundaries with people.
It sets him up to be a doormat. That's the part I would focus on and work to rectify immediately.
This hot mess is a distraction, but at least she's a revealing one.
I know. It bugs me, too. This is his first relationship of any meaning, intimacy, or duration though. His first ride on that rollercoaster of emotion that infatuated love causes. I understand this...which is why I know better than to try and FORCE him to break up with her, he'd only go all "star crossed lovers" and "no one understands!" on me. I've pointed out to him many times, that he will likely have plenty of other opportunities at love in his life, and he needs to be LEARNING from all this. I let him tell me all the bad stuff and it's like one day he's sure he's definitely breaking up with her, the next he's like "We can make this work!"
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Originally Posted by kokonutty
If he's not going to school, Sonny should be working at a full time job. That alone would cut down on the time available to spend with the girl friend. It would also give him an opportunity to learn about personal responsibility and to plan for his own future rather that having his mother decide on a "plan" for what he should be doing. Right now he is doing whatever he feels like doing; probably like he has been for the past seventeen years. How's that working out?
"Sonny" has been applying for jobs all over town. I expect he'll have better luck getting one, after he's completed the GED. Right now as a dropout, I don't think he's a very competitive applicant.
As it is I have him going to a class every afternoon for GED prep, and given I think he can pass it without the class, that is mostly to keep him busy in the afternoons between when his girl gets out of school and when I get home from work. Yesterday though, her school and his class were cancelled due to snow, that's why he had the opportunity to get up to "whatever."
I give him guidance. Support. He makes the plan. He is the one wanting to get into a certain field and planning how to get there, including college (starting at community college and working up) and including military service in a couple of years. And yes he has a plan for paying for college too. This thread wasn't meant to cover his entire life story, but by all means keep looking for holes to ATTACK for whatever reason you enjoy that, there.
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Originally Posted by FrugalFox
Op, you have a lot going on. So sorry you are enduring this.
My main concern is your 17 year old doesn't see the danger signs of dating a girl who has been in an out of mental institutions.
Doesn't say much about the maturity or wisdom of your 17 year old.
I don't know many 17 year olds who are "wise and mature." I wasn't.
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...he needs to get a vasectomy.
...
She's already manipulative. Don't be surprised if it escalates to him hitting her, molesting the child, whatever she makes up to get her way. Hope not but her history leaves it open to many avenues she could take.
Your son may be able to get a vasectomy reversed when he is more mentally stable himself.
Later in life when he is ready to produce a child with his wife, then he can. Or he can adopt.
This is a bomb waiting to go off....period.
The girl wants to talk to you, well you need to play mom. Don't make the mistake of rejecting her.
Your advice may seem to fall on deaf ears but she needs a Mother who can tell her she needs to get on Birth Control.
And show compassion for her.
I'm not suggesting my son get a vasectomy at age 18 and I don't know any doctors who will perform one. A little less so than with women trying to get tubes tied, but most docs won't do sterilization procedures with the very young people who have no kids. They know if you get it reversed later, there's a good chance your fertility will be a problem. And my son does ONE DAY (late 20s is his plan, and not with this girl) want to have kids.
Did you miss the part where I said she has an implant? Her parents were smart enough when she was foolin' around sleeping around, to take her in to get it. I confirmed that with them some time ago. But she likes to tell my son she "feels like it is wearing off" (not until next year, actually, nice try) and that she "feels pregnant." She does this to freak him out and upset him. We have bought pregnancy tests multiple times now, just to shut her up and put him at ease. But trust me, he's got his condoms, I am telling him he shouldn't sleep with her anyhow, and she has an implant.
I gave her compassion until she started manipulating ME (or trying to) and there are other things she's said I won't get into here, trust me I am 100% justified in NOT giving her my mothering and compassion.
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The best thing for all involved is to find a true bible believing church so everyone is on the same page.
She was raised in a big ol' bible believing church. Went on mission trips and everything. Her family is very religious, they adopted 5 kids from other countries and one of her brothers molested her. Her Mom's constant belittling her appearance has given her eating disorders. The religion didn't save her from anything. I'm very sorry about her life but I don't consent to take responsibility for her. I'm just being there for my son until he can get off the crazy train. I did not consent to adopt a hard luck case, though. This town and this world are full of troubled strays and I am not into trying to rescue them. I don't have the resources. My son doesn't, either, but unlike me, he hasn't yet learned this lesson the hard way...but he's working on it!
Get counseling. Tricks are for kids. Not parents.
I feel sorry for the young lady...to be judged and unwelcomed. But I trust you are being objectively fair in your assessment. .
Lady?
Did the meaning of that word change recently?
If so, apologies..
For what it is worth, lest I seem utterly heartless, I have told the girl that is has nothing to do with whether I like her or not. I find her very likable, she is smart and pretty and I don't hate her at all and hope she finds her way in the world. And I have also stressed that my son's behavior in this relationship hasn't been stellar either. He's shared enough with me that I know this. But it is my concern for BOTH of them that makes me say, "This is an unhealthy relationship that doesn't do anything really good for either of you and you'd be better off without it." Yet I cannot MAKE them never see one another, as I don't physically have the ability to have eyes on them 100% of the time. Wish I could, but I can't. However, I can draw the boundary around my own home space and let my son know that if he violates it, I WILL find out and I will not be very likely to forgive or forget. In fact I might especially remember the next time he asks me for money, for instance...or something else he wants... I've also let him know that this boundary is additionally meant for his own well being, because she's caused enough stress and drama and stuff that he should have a safe place from that, in terms of his home. If he isn't strong enough to break it off with her yet, at least he need not put up with it at all times in all places.
But none of this is me judging her as unworthy or rejecting her because I just don't like her. Not at all. I like plenty of people that I've had to make strong boundaries against, it's what you have to do when someone is potentially harmful to you. My son just hasn't learned how to manage that yet...and I don't hold it against him, as when I was his age, I hadn't either. It's not always an easy thing to do.
Hmmm. Maybe you could make your son an unnatractive boyfriend. Like taking his car keys away from him. (If he's driving.)
Or...taking an allowance away, if he has an allowance. Stuff like that.
I wouldn't necesarily enforce the restrictions just to get a girl to break up with him...but he's already broken your rules, and chances are, he will again.
So...like say...he fails one of the classes, you take the keys. She comes to the house again, everyone knowing she's not allowed, quit supplying him with money...if you're doing that.
Hmmm. Maybe you could make your son an unnatractive boyfriend. Like taking his car keys away from him. (If he's driving.)
Or...taking an allowance away, if he has an allowance. Stuff like that.
I wouldn't necesarily enforce the restrictions just to get a girl to break up with him...but he's already broken your rules, and chances are, he will again.
So...like say...he fails one of the classes, you take the keys. She comes to the house again, everyone knowing she's not allowed, quit supplying him with money...if you're doing that.
He isn't driving yet. He's got a permit, and this state makes him have it for a year which means he can test for his license in June. But the money thing...yeah.
That's kind of the point I made to him, that there are plenty of times he asks me for money, to meet up with her at the coffee shop or one of the many restaurants or shops near where we live, and I'll sometimes give him a little money (usually only like $5 or so) a few times a week. He does do work around the house, and I don't give him an official allowance for that, because I've told him that when he's out on his own, no one is going to reward him for cleaning up after himself, he just needs to do it regardless because it must be done. But I am willing to do this...when he and I are on normal terrain.
I'm less willing if I am feeling disrespected.
But I don't know that she cares about this. She has a job. In fact she was begging to be allowed to take both of us (son and myself) out to dinner so she could talk to me. She also bought me a dozen roses. She wants very badly to shmooze me and I'm not really having it. "Yes I like you. No I don't hate you. But no I will not be playing any games with you. Keep your money, girl. I can make my own dinner."
EDIT: Actually me keeping her out of my house IS kinda making him a less appealing boyfriend, when I am able to make it work. Seems she's got some rather intense uh...urges. My son has actually expressed he's tired of that somewhat, feels she uses him for sex. But making it more difficult at least for them to "hook up"...I feel like eventually she'll cheat if she hasn't already. If he finds out she did that, then he may just be able to really end it, as that's a major hot button for him.
I could threaten to "out" them to her parents if they break my rules. But that feels like being manipulative and I'm not sure I'd want to follow through on that threat. I don't actually think it's morally OK to throw out your kid before they have the minimum tools to be an adult (like getting through school somehow, whether by graduating or GED.) Even threatening to jeopardize a young person's living situation like this...sits ill with me. But it's the only leverage I can see.
*sigh*
I dunno.
Anybody got a suggestion?
This seems like your best option. Few thoughts here:
1) You think she's a liar and manipulator. So, you don't know if she's telling the truth about getting kicked out.
2) Teenagers are manipulative, as you've learned from your son breaking your rule. Sometimes you do indeed have to fight fire with fire.
3) I know you're an empathetic person, but your sole responsibility is to your son and to yourself. While seemingly heartless, the fallout over what happens to her is not your concern.
I think I would knock down all the secrecy doors and tell everyone everything.
Take it upon yourself to get to know her parents and engage in running dialogue reporting everything that is said to you and everything you say to both kids. What they are doing is using a barrier that they built themselves to keep everyone from talking. So tear it down. You will be AMAZED at what Drama Queen has said about you and they will be AMAZED when they get to know the person you are.
And you may even find out a few things about Sonny.
I've spoken to her parents in the past. We have some disconnects. So you say talk to her parents, and if they decide to go ahead and throw her out because they found out she lied about seeing my kid (she is an adult, they CAN do this) and then the girl is homeless, and my son is begging to let her stay with us so she doesn't sleep on the street or hole up with one of her sketchy friends...then what? I let her? Or I say no and strain things with my kid?
I don't KNOW if they'd throw her out or not but they can. I do know they plan to move to another city and leave her behind within weeks of her graduation whether she has somewhere to go, or not. She has put them through hell, and they've been abusive at times too (from what she says and my perception from talking to them confirms.)
Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable narcing on her but I wouldn't be comfortable abetting her lies, either. You might consider talking to her parents, but giving her a few days of fair warning before you do. I think you also need to make it crystal clear to everyone involved that she will not be moving into your house, period, now while she still has time to work out a plan.
Give him his 30 days' notice a month before his 18th birthday.
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" OK? We good now? ...
