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Decision making is a skill that takes time to develop, so children need time, which it seems is the very thing not given to them. Part of what takes time is the emotional aspect of having limitations and expectations set upon them. It does help if they can buy into what we are selling as well.
There seems a desire to reduce the concept of disciple to something easy like punish kids into submission in the moment. Do what Mom and Dad SAY when they say it. And it looks like it "works" for a time. Until it doesn't. Or, sometimes, people don't understand what not working looks like.
Weird example. My in-laws were very punitive, my way or the highway, parents. Stick and carrot to do what they were told. My husband adopted the seemingly rebellious reaction. I promise you that he is the sane one. His sister, at 51 years old, cannot mail a package without calling Dad to find out what to do. I am not joking. She speaks to her parents every single day to determine minutia. When she visits, Dad takes over pretty much everything. Nags her to eat. Nags her to sleep. Dad still supports her with monthly checks so she can have a "decent" lifestyle. She is so incapable and relies so heavily on what Dad tells her to do, even relishes in being Daddy's little girl at 51 years old. It is hella scary what is going to happen to her when Dad croaks. Obviously this is an extreme example. Many people turn out "fine". Whatever "fine" looks like.
There seems a desire to reduce the concept of disciple to something easy like punish kids into submission in the moment. Do what Mom and Dad SAY when they say it. And it looks like it "works" for a time. Until it doesn't. Or, sometimes, people don't understand what not working looks like.
Weird example. My in-laws were very punitive, my way or the highway, parents. Stick and carrot to do what they were told. My husband adopted the seemingly rebellious reaction. I promise you that he is the sane one. His sister, at 51 years old, cannot mail a package without calling Dad to find out what to do. I am not joking. She speaks to her parents every single day to determine minutia. When she visits, Dad takes over pretty much everything. Nags her to eat. Nags her to sleep. Dad still supports her with monthly checks so she can have a "decent" lifestyle. She is so incapable and relies so heavily on what Dad tells her to do, even relishes in being Daddy's little girl at 51 years old. It is hella scary what is going to happen to her when Dad croaks. Obviously this is an extreme example. Many people turn out "fine". Whatever "fine" looks like.
Wow. Hopefully your FIL leaves her some resources since she is so dependent on him.
Our daughter has to meet our expectations in order to access things that we pay for like using the internet. If she is having a problem listening to our directions, it is something we want to look into. For example, we expect polite behavior but we don't demand it. Instead we give it a purpose. "Why are we polite?" was what we asked each other every morning when we wanted to teach this explicitly. Our response was something we all agreed. "Because we are not perfect." It was never because it is "nice."
There were other issues we had when it came to teaching, which she really disliked and gave us attitude, would even walk away. So when she become frustrated with the task, we would simply ask "Do you want to learn through experience or through education?" Once she chose education (that would be us), she knew the expectations on how she was to interact. For example, she knows not to "try" but to be intentional.
Wow. Hopefully your FIL leaves her some resources since she is so dependent on him.
Our daughter has to meet our expectations in order to access things that we pay for like using the internet. If she is having a problem listening to our directions, it is something we want to look into. For example, we expect polite behavior but we don't demand it. Instead we give it a purpose. "Why are we polite?" was what we asked each other every morning when we wanted to teach this explicitly. Our response was something we all agreed. "Because we are not perfect." It was never because it is "nice."
There were other issues we had when it came to teaching, which she really disliked and gave us attitude, would even walk away. So when she become frustrated with the task, we would simply ask "Do you want to learn through experience or through education?" Once she chose education (that would be us), she knew the expectations on how she was to interact. For example, she knows not to "try" but to be intentional.
So it sounds like she's learning that if she doesn't see a particular purpose in being polite, there is no other reason.
So it sounds like she's learning that if she doesn't see a particular purpose in being polite, there is no other reason.
Is there? I am being serious. What is discipline FOR? I think many people, wrongly, believe it is about behavior management. Sure some people just sort of figure out the patterns of why they do what they do. Many, many don't. They just do whatever and never know why.
I think that is falling far short of what little people can learn. WHY we choose the things we choose. And it includes words you don't often hear people saying to 5 year olds, like character and integrity. And the feelings of others. And the platinum rule, do unto others what they would have done unto them...
Too many kids seem to rule and I think the parents must fear they will go out and steal or get their hands on guns or whatever to get what they want. Not a healthy society.
Started with TV and went on to where we are today.
No, the system was not about learning to think critically back in the day. It was about memorizing and remembering what you were told, including things that are not facts about our history and about the men who founded it.
Were you taught this about Reconstruction? Reconstruction was the period right after the Civil War when blacks took over the government of the Southern states. But they were too soon out of slavery and so they screwed up and white folks had to take control again. Well, that is not true.
Were you taught that we started out great and we've been getting better ever since kind of automatically.
That is not true either.
What did you learn about Columbus?
Most of the American History books used in the schools are a combination of blind patriotism, mindless optimism, sheer misinformation, and outright lies.
Try reading Lies My Teacher Told Me by James W. Loewen as well as his other book about the things that are wrong on our monuments - Lies Across America. You might also read Sundown Towns by the same author.
While Jefferson thought schools should teach critical thinking that is not what happened. An educated workforce is vital to a state’s interests, so the state has a reason to educate individual students. However, in modern technological societies, that interest is defined largely in terms of economic productivity, technological innovation, and vital social services. Public education is organized to produce a workforce that can serve these important goals. Much of public education was dedicated to producing good factory workers.
No. TBH, I don't remember much what I was taught about reconstruction, but it wasn't that.
Not exactly. Again, TBH, I think we were basically taught facts in high school. This act, that act, this war, that war. There weren't a lot of opinions expressed by the teachers, nor were they interested in ours.
Can't remember exactly. I do recall learning Columbus wanted to prove the world is round. We pretty much all know that's untrue now; that many people thought it was round long before Columbus. We learned he made several voyages to the west, that he took slaves, etc.
I was just reading some reviews of the book you mentioned. I especially like this one from Goodreads: "Having said all that, however, I found Loewen was overplaying the “politically correct†hand himself, replacing the conservative, Euro-centric rhetoric with his own overtly socialist and liberal leanings."
And Jefferson? Jefferson owned slaves. He had sex resulting in children with one of them! Why is he given such a high place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
Critical Thinking is more of a thing now then it was in the 50s and 60s when I went to school. It is much more encouraged now at least in my granddaughter's and grandson's schools and it was with my children in the 70s and 80s. My son was in a fantastic science program and definitely had to think critically to pass. My daughter was in the theater shop and had hands on learning and critical thinking there. My granddaughter has managed to take 4 AP classes in her Sophomore and Junior years and will take 3 more this year (her senior year). It is less for my grandson because he has autism and is in special education.
The curriculum should be uniform across the country, btw. It is in most other countries including England, Japan, China, etc. How to teach is controlled by the teachers. What should be taught though should be uniform across the entire US.
After all, if a student takes Algebra I there should not be different Algebra I's in different schools. I was a math teacher so that is my perspective on it.
Also note that the history curriculum needs to be standardized as well. English grammar should be standard although literature can be different books depending on the particular school.
Japan's population is larger, at 126.8 million, but still just about 1/3 of the US' and totally non-diverse. Land area is 145,936 sm. Both of these countries are much more compact than the US.
As for China, yes, the largest population in the world, also a large land area, unlike the two above. However, the education isn't as standardized as think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_China "Also while averages across the breadth of other countries are reported, China's rankings are taken from only a few select districts.[14] . . Tuition-free primary education is, despite compulsory education laws, still a target rather than a realized goal throughout China. As many families have difficulty paying school fees, some children are forced to leave school earlier than the nine-year goal. . . Urban primary schools typically divided the school week into twenty-four to twenty-seven classes of forty-five minutes each, but in the rural areas, the norm was half-day schooling, more flexible schedules, and itinerant teachers."
Already over my allowable three. There's a lot of information there.
I seriously doubt the teachers have a lot of autonomy, especially in China. How is Algebra I is any different in Portland, Maine than in Portland, Oregon? Why can different books be used school to school for literature but nothing else?
I seriously doubt the teachers have a lot of autonomy, especially in China. How is Algebra I is any different in Portland, Maine than in Portland, Oregon? Why can different books be used school to school for literature but nothing else?
Different books can be used, but the total content covered needs to be standardized. This is especially important in math classes because if you have children moving from place to place, you need to know that they learned the appropriate material for Algebra I before they take Algebra II (or geometry).
Different books can be used, but the total content covered needs to be standardized. This is especially important in math classes because if you have children moving from place to place, you need to know that they learned the appropriate material for Algebra I before they take Algebra II (or geometry).
It was already tried and it was a disaster. Each community should be free to teach what they feel is important and not teach to minimum standard.
How was it tried and how was it a disaster? I don't see that. Certainly when I taught math, kids needed to know things in a certain sequence.
US had core requirement, overall this was a disaster which why many states stopped teaching to it. Yes math is needed to be taught but at what grade should be state /City /district choice
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