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When I was a young adult, with no children, I thought I knew how to raise my little nieces and nephews, and their parents were complete slackers and let their kids get away with everything.
I CERTAINLY wasn't going to be one of THOSE parents.
Berry sounds like me, way back then.
Nope, got 2 kids of my own and have been working with small children for years. You sound like perhaps one of those parents who allows their children to run the household? Since we're both making assumptions here
Nope, got 2 kids of my own and have been working with small children for years. You sound like perhaps one of those parents who allows their children to run the household? Since we're both making assumptions here
I didn't make an assumption. I asked. And then explained why I asked. Apparently only one of us is making assumptions.
My kids are grown. They frustrated me and drove me crazy sometimes, but I can tell you for a fact, I never called them *******s. That's what made me wonder if you were actually a parent.
Or just among my friends. I don’t have kids but what I witness didn’t happen years ago. We had plans to meet our friends and their teenagers. Then she tells me she won’t make it on time because her daughter wanted to sleep in. When I was a teen, if I wasn’t ready, I want going.
We all decide on a restaurant but then have to change it if their kids decide to go and want to eat somewhere else.
A friends 7 year old daughter asked me to share my food with her. Instead of my friend telling her daughter no you are getting your own food, she asked if I was ok sharing it.
We ordered appetizers for the adults and as soon as it is served, my friends 9 year old daughter puts her hand in it and takes some. They don’t say anything. Also let her kid constantly interrupt.
When I was a child I knew my place. Of course I tested things but I was reprimanded. I love kids and sometime regret not having them but it seems so different now.
People ask to try other people's food, perhaps you misconstrued the seven-year old's request as a sharing request? And if she did, so what, she asked.
Appetizers are for everyone at the table.
The teen doesn't get a pass. Next time, the parent probably shouldn't honest lest they be judged - just sayin'.
But changing the venue at the last minute is only acceptable when there are real dietary restrictions or maybe an act of god ruined the other place.
When I was a child I knew my place. Of course I tested things but I was reprimanded. I love kids and sometime regret not having them but it seems so different now.
Being a child is not the same as being responsible for a child. There is no way this can be explained to you. You have to experience it, yourself.
You should probably find new friends who are more like you. The center of their lives have changed while yours has not. That's the best explanation I can give you.
I am not crazy about the attitude. But it is a darned site closer than the dreadful appeasement you see out of many parents these days.
Went through an episode of appeasement last weekend with our nephews. We were out with them, my brother-in-law, my husband and my in-laws. BIL and MIL spent all their time appeasing the 8 year old. He's the oldest grandchild so he can do no wrong, even when he's doing all kinds of wrong. It's always been chaotic at their house but this was the first time I really noticed that they defer to the 8 year old constantly and now he thinks he's in charge.
We went to a restaurant for lunch and the hostess was going to put two tables of 4 together for us but nephew demanded we sit in the circular booth, which isn't designed for more than 6. MIL's standard reply is "if that's what he wants". So we're all jammed into the booth and nephew is dictating where we sit. I'm the only one not willing to go along with it so I tell him where I'll be sitting ( on an end in case I need to run screaming from the table )
MIL consults with both nephews and they order appetizers. I order a small one for myself to go along with my salad. Their appetizers arrive and they start eating. The entrees arrive, with my side appetizer and salad and they both lunge across the table grabbing with both hands, without asking, without even knowing what it is, and there was one piece left for me. BIL finally pipes up and says "that wasn't for you, you don't just help yourself". Nephew asked what it was, made a face and said "gross" and threw it back on the plate.
On top of it all, nephew is allowed to order the largest item on the menu that most grown men would have had trouble finishing, because that's what nephew wants so that's what he gets. 3 bites and he was finished. He was then pawing through my husband's meal. DH sat there in stony silence, completely unimpressed but would never speak out at his brother's child. (I hear about it on the way home) I definitely don't have that problem. Since no one else was saying anything, I told him to get his hands out of his uncle's food.
When he wasn't grabbing food, he kept interrupting and talking over everyone, especially little nephew who had things he wanted to tell us but he's not so quick with a story at his age. Poor guy started a story and got cut off from older nephew several times and everyone was oblivious but me who finally snapped and said "let him finish!" It's always after I say something that BIL and MIL take notice of what's going on. How and why are they so oblivious?
Afterward we had an outdoor activity planned but it was threatening a thunderstorm so we weren't sure if we should bother. Nephew starts acting out because he wants to do it regardless and my father-in-law was next to me, muttering under his breath to stop asking him what he wants to do and just tell him what we're doing.
It's exhausting and unpleasant and I am resentful that any family gathering deteriorates because the adults don't remember that they're supposed to be in charge and not the 8 year old. Amazingly enough, even after speaking out a few times, he had no issues giving me a hug and saying love you. So what are the parents and grandmother so afraid of?
I have big and little kids. Yes, platter appetizers are for everyone at the table, but it would be completely unacceptable for my child to stick their hand right in the center of communal food as it's set down on the table. My youngest is 3.5 and he has better table manners than that. I could see this being very off putting for someone who doesn't have kids. I also think 5 is too old to start expecting manners at a restaurant.
No way would I change dinner plans made in advance with friends because my child or teen wanted to eat elsewhere. There would have to be a really special circumstance and I am not even sure what that would be. Severe dietary restrictions of everything on the menu, I guess However, for eating out as a group with little kids I could see insisting on eating somewhere that gives the little one the best chance for good behavior and a happy evening for everyone, like a pizzaria or burger place or someplace not quiet. That doesn't have to mean lousy food. There is an awesome pub just down the street with outdoor lawn games and a pizza place, the best in town, that always has whatever sport is in season on several TVs. These are great places for kids and adults to be happy and have a nice evening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LO28SWM Sometimes as a parent you pick your battles. For example a battle I would pick is my kid will.get us and get ready to go or not go at all, no sleeping in to make us late. A battle I wouldn't pick is asking a friend if it's ok to change restaurants. The answer can be no, my friend can cancel, but a happy kid makes a night bearable a pissy kid makes me regret even going out. It's about picking battles. I do agree about the appetizer thing, a 9 year old is capable of serving herself. I wouldn't let my 4 year old grab but he touches everything even if hes not eating it.
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Originally Posted by somebodynew
A pissy kid only stays that way when we allow them to tantrum and ... well be pissy to get their way. Pissy kids repeat pissy behavior when we let them. I'd stay home before I allowed a kid to get their way by pitching a fit.. ahem, being pissy. Cuz I want them to grow up to have some measure of self control and awareness of their situation and environment, not be a spoiled and entitled brat.
This, in spades. My children did not get to go out with adults until they learned (as they can, if taught) to exhibit "restaurant manners", and they most certainly did not get to override the adults as to which restaurant to go to.
As for the 4 year old touching everything even if he's not eating it, where DID you get your manners, that you are allowing him to do that to food that others may be consuming?
That's one way to look at it. Another way is to say that it's a low-risk way of finding out if you like a particular food. .
I don't want to pay for someone else to try out food, though. If my fellow diners "assume" I'll share my food, I would likely walk out. Unless they want to cover the cost of my meal, they aren't getting bites of my food.
Being a child is not the same as being responsible for a child. There is no way this can be explained to you. You have to experience it, yourself.
You should probably find new friends who are more like you. The center of their lives have changed while yours has not. That's the best explanation I can give you.
This is probably the crux of my intention wrt posts like this. Of COURSE, our worlds change when we have kids. But it is not good for the kids to be viewed as the center of said world. It is our job to teach them how to do things like get along with other people.
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So we're all jammed into the booth and nephew is dictating where we sit. I'm the only one not willing to go along with it so I tell him where I'll be sitting ( on an end in case I need to run screaming from the table 
However, for eating out as a group with little kids I could see insisting on eating somewhere that gives the little one the best chance for good behavior and a happy evening for everyone, like a pizzaria or burger place or someplace not quiet. That doesn't have to mean lousy food. There is an awesome pub just down the street with outdoor lawn games and a pizza place, the best in town, that always has whatever sport is in season on several TVs. These are great places for kids and adults to be happy and have a nice evening.
