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I don't really care that you're going off topic from the tread. You seemed to want it be some big "GOTCHA" video clip about drag queen storytime, when it wasn't even anything to do with drag queen storytime.
I wasn't there. I don't know the exact age of the kids, but middle schoolers are also tweens, so I doubt it was marketed to elementary kids, that's just your wishful thinking. It depends on how the library breaks up there events. Teen events at my local library include 6-8 grade and 13-18 year olds. 6 graders are typically 11-12 years old, so would be included in that tween category. But just because they allow middle school tweens to attend an event, doesn't mean that 10 year olds are also at this event.
Edit to add: I did look up the library the YouTube video claimed the video was from. Most of their teen events are listed as being for middle and high school ages, others are 13+. So yeah, not elementary kids.
Oh, you think I posted the video to "prove" that DQSH is a bad idea? Nah, I just posted it in response to someone else posting along the lines that reading is all that happens at public libraries. See Post #354.
I have no "wishful thinking" about the event in the video including tweens; that is simply what it said on the description of the video itself, which was only mentioned because another poster said that the description said it was for teens. Just pointing out that the description included tweens, which can be as young as 10. Again, Post #354.
But strange how you zeroed in on that video rather than the one made by the actual drag queen who doesn't think that this thing is such a good idea. Thanks to this thread, though, I'm beginning to agree with him about the whole thing being more about parents signalling their "wokeness" than anything else. I also see some good points in the articles I linked to in Post #342. Before you start again, I said I saw good points, not that I agreed 100% with anything I posted.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 07-15-2022 at 03:08 PM..
Oh, you think I posted the video to "prove" that DQSH is a bad idea? Nah, I just posted it in response to someone else posting along the lines that reading is all that happens at public libraries. See Post #354.
But again, that wasn't a video of drag queen storytime. That was some other event at the library that we know nothing about. You're just assuming what it was and saying that drag queen storytime is inappropriate because o do some unrelated event.
And if you're going to claim that wasn't the point, then what was the point of posting an unrelated video in response to a post about drag queen storytime?
But again, that wasn't a video of drag queen storytime. That was some other event at the library that we know nothing about. You're just assuming what it was and saying that drag queen storytime is inappropriate because o do some unrelated event.
And if you're going to claim that wasn't the point, then what was the point of posting an unrelated video in response to a post about drag queen storytime?
Actually, what I questioned the appropriateness of was this:
One of the latest episodes of the program features a drag queen named Little Miss Hot Mess as the host. The drag queen reads and dances to a book he wrote titled "The Hips on the Drag Queen Go Swish, Swish, Swish," which is a play on the classic nursery rhyme "The Wheels on the Bus."
I'll concede that the video you're complaining about didn't directly have anything to do with "reading to little kids;" nonetheless, it seems part of a larger trend of drag queens in libraries, and there was clearly child-sized furniture in the background. And again, because the description on the video mentioned that it was for tweens and teens. — again, their words, not something I dreamed up as you've tried to claim, it's fair to wonder if that's appropriate for kids as young as 10. As far as assuming, you're assuming that it was on some "teen night" at the library.
You're like a dog with a bone about that particular video but have nothing to say about the one where the drag queen gives his point of view about it? Or the articles from feminist groups?
I know you think you've found someone who's vehemently against DQST (which isn't even true) to "debate" this with, but harping on and on about the video isn't debate or even discussion; it's just harping for harping's sake.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 07-15-2022 at 04:14 PM..
As a cis-gendered person with young children, I cannot fathom the idea that anyone, kids, adults, or birds in the trees, can "think they may not be the gender they were born with". I act how I act and desire whom I desire with complete personal authority. My kids do the same. I can no more change my children's fundamental natures--even as pliant youngsters--than I can change the orbit of the moon. I have tried to change much more minor aspects of my children's personalities with zero success. Any decent parent will tell you that you cannot change nature, you can only give your children the tools to channel their impulses and nature into something more productive (or sometimes just "manageable"). Changing a teen or adult's fundamental nature? HA! It takes a comedian to even suggest something like that.
I can't imagine being wired differently where any of these fundamentals of my nature is a "choice", or that I could have been taught to be gay, bisexual, or a different gender. The idea seems completely ludicrous, both for myself and my children. I can't imagine a child that, when given--even the most simple instructions about changing their nature--"don't like sparkly unicorns, Jimmy, those are for girls"--says simply: "Okay dad! I hate sparkly unicorns, now." That is not the reaction of a human child. And while I might sometimes wish for such a malleable lump of alien clay, I am (usually) glad that my children are humans who push boundaries, stand up for themselves and have a human measure of self-determination. I'm also proud of myself for guiding them (or sometimes beating them, hammer and tongs) into the approximate shape of productive and successful young people.
I am sure childless people, or some uninvolved parents, might think such changes are so simple, but a good parent will quickly disabuse you of such notions.
Could you please explain where the idea comes from? Do you, personally, feel like you could have switched genders at some point in your life, or that how you identify was somehow a product of nurture rather than nature? TBH, if you are cis and it was a choice, that is hardly something of which to be ashamed. I would think that people who say they chose to be cis should be proud of overcoming a struggle that many of us never face. It seems like it would be a very difficult thing to not have a settled gender or gender preference.
That so many people claim gender and preference is a choice makes me think that the percentages of LBGTQ alphabet soup are much higher than we realize, and that most people who rail against it have, themselves, some form of identity struggle.
It's becoming a serious issue. Even liberal Bill Maher has said that those who identify as LGBT seems to double every generation. 20.8% of Gen Z identifies as LGBT. I'm all for gay rights, but something's not right here.
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So a comedian celebrity is your source, rather than social scientists who actually, ya know, study the matter? Furthermore, LGBTQ'ers can and do have and raise children so how is this a "serious issue"?
Says an unmarried childless comedian with no kids.
He is laughably unqualified. Any advice he gives on child-rearing, you should RUN to do the opposite.[/quote]
Yours is a weak argument. People with kids as well as gay, lesbian, and transgender people have said similar things as I have.
I'm not really trying to "prove a point" because I'm actually kind of neutral on this, but I do like to get varying perspectives on cultural trends. This guy on this "stupidity video" has some interesting things to say.
I agree with him! ......uh, her!!!!......uh, they?!!!! I agree.
Drag Queen whatever used to be strictly adult entertainment but we seem to have turned it into way (via story hours and such) to promote transgenderism. or something. not quite natural.
And really...someone would find this sexy? Or sexual? It's supposed to be over the top...and geez, to me, it's the equivalent of a clown "accidentally" dropping his pants as part of his act.
Yeah, it really is very clowny. And I no more find drag queens insulting to women, than I find the old hobo/tramp clown act to be insulting to the homeless.
It is performance art, at the level of the clothing and makeup and look. What individuals then DO while wearing their drag, is on them...and I suspect that some of them are going and sitting and reading age appropriate books to kids.
Some of them might NOT be. And if they are not, then...I'd hope someone would shut it down. Why am I pointing out the "maybe/maybe-not" of it? Because individuals are individuals. They make choices, and do things for different reasons.
At the level of "skilled makeup artist, clothing designer, clown persona having performance artist showing up to engage the interest of kids in reading books, while wearing super sparkly things and over the top wigs, in a library"...I am completely cool with it.
Where I do have concerns, is that I absolutely feel that there are individuals in this community (I know some, and the drama and strife among them is on a level you would not believe) who are just basically out to make a scene. There are some who are just simply very invested in this sassy, confrontational, in your face "ready to start some crap," and "bring it, honey" attitude. I said before, I think a big motivation in this was to be edgy and triggering to the wholesome family types. They are, in a sense, trolling. And when people react, they can fall back on "you're just a homophobe!" They want confrontation.
And in any instances, for specific INDIVIDUALS, where that's where they're coming from...I would not have wanted my kids to be a pawn in that game. No thanks.
I would sooner take them to a Pride parade, but one I've attended before and have an idea of how it is...Colorado Springs Pride was pretty family friendly, in my opinion. I went several times. The energy was always just happy...everyone's happy to be there, everyone is smiling and joyful and rainbowy. Yay! Good times. Denver, I heard, had more nudity. So...maybe not that one so much.
I would not expect a kid to come away from DQSH with a newfound questioning of their gender or sexual orientation, but I might be concerned if they'd come home with some extra sass and new inflections for backtalk. I can so imagine a 7 year old responding to me telling them to do homework or chores with, "Not today, Satan!" and the "talk to the hand" gesture. (A Seattle Queen was the origin of that one.)
I think that the talk of pedos and perversion is eye-rollingly beside the point and not likely the real issue here. I do think that by deliberately going in there to be triggery and confrontational to "conservatives" they might be doing more harm than good to the image and perceptions of LGBTQ+ people, as the Queen in the Youtube video mentioned at one point. I do think that keeping Drag as a form of "adult" entertainment would have been more sensible and in a way, more respectful to the art form of it. It has a perfectly comfortable home nestled in with burlesque and vaudeville, in my opinion.
In my opinion...like it kinda reminds me of the Satanic Temple people. Who are not what a lot of mainstream conservative types would expect, but who ARE really just rather edgy, confrontational types out to push people's buttons and challenge social norms. Once in a while they do some things that I applaud... But I'm just not sure that it's a great idea even in 2022 to be a member of a fringe thing and to stomp up to the mainstream, thumb your nose, and push the "I am a living threat to your way of life" button. Just because we don't burn witches at the stake anymore, doesn't mean that this kind of thing is really called for, or truly safe to do. Especially with, in the case of DQSH, and LGBTQ+ issues these days...like, actual trans people are still in danger. Marriage equality is not truly, safely enshrined in law. Now might just not be the time to be all provocative like this, or to spook the straights into thinking that the weirdos are comin' for their kids.
Progress happens when people can respect each other and give things time for adjustment, even though fighting for rights has been necessary, things get very ugly when it's all just backlash to backlash all over the place.
But.../sigh... Here I am just having concerns that are kinda...practical. And drag queens might be among the most delightfully impractical people I can think of.
I value a healthy, nurturing society so I'm all for promotion of anything I can be sure will contribute to that. So I get an uncomfortable feeling with those who don't consider the pros and cons of any change and answer the hard questions about, "Is this good or bad? How much better or worse? For everyone or a few?"
They aren't easy questions to answer. Anything new we don't know until a practice has been implemented for a while whether the result is positive or negative. And even then opposing sides can argue.
So the response to just let people do their thing and if you don't agree just don't participate gives me pause no matter what the subject. Let's make informed choices. We are responsible for guarding the well-being of our society and really do need to take these issues as seriously as that.
There are times and places for all kinds of education and amusement and boundary issues are to be respected on both sides of opposing groups.
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Drag Queens by nature are boundary challengers and in this case activists. There are several already breached. Sometimes it's a good thing in a changing society and by their fruit we shall know them. But I don't expect people who do drag to be able to restrain their enthusiasm in front of an audience. It would hardly be drag if it weren't narcissistic excess.
I read half of this thread and it's been interesting but I ran out of steam when it began to repeat. It raised some questions for me that would require a lot of research but I settled for this article from "Psychology Today" for now:
When my kids were growing up they were exposed to a wide variety of religious practices, political stances and types of people. I usually made an effort to preview what they were going to be exposed to so that I would be able to have a conversation with them afterwards if they had questions.
My assessment of exposure is aiming for age appropriate so I'd probably want to visit before I ever took the kids. Still you can't predict each performance will be identical. If the issue is emotionally volatile this can be a set-up for acting out or violent backlash.
The sexual thing? Are drag queens less apt to abuse children than clergy? Would have to see the data. But
I do know that sexual violation of children is rampant and neither libraries nor the light of day will assure against harm. We all would do well to avoid complacency regardless of where we are.
My main concern applies to far more than drag queens reading in libraries and that's the fact that for about forty years and getting more intense I can't seem to plan a fun afternoon without some activist hiding around the corner or shouting to the rafters. I'm ready to protest for activist-free spaces.
To add to some of the previous posts, if they just want it to be a clown show, they should call it a clown show story hour. By making sure everybody knows these are really drag queens, they are putting those words and ideas into the minds of little kids. Then the kids start asking what a drag queen is. And there's no need for them to know about these things at a tender age unless we are trying to encourage them to try it for themselves. I don't think it should be normalized.
Men dressing as women is fine but we know it is not normal and it is something we do not want to encourage in our kids. It's best done in private or in front of adults in a show. I'd rather see some acceptable role models reading the stories. And anyway, I see no need to educate kids about drag queens or any other perversion. They can find out later in psychology class when they are old enough to understand and they are more sure of who they are.
It's inappropriate, it serves no useful or good purpose and I strongly disagree with it. I also don't like drag queen contests being shown on some reality TV shows on broadcasting stations that proclaim to be family friendly. If these men insist on drag queening then let them return to the gay bars to do it where they'll be more appreciated by their audience. Not in the library or school rooms or children's birthday parties and not in the homes of families with young kiddies in the house.
The only true purpose of drag queening is to enable certain types of men to clothe themselves as freakishly dressed and painted up clown caricatures and make a cartoonish mockery of all women under the guise of comedic entertainment. They aren't being funny, they're being resentful and abnormal extremists who are messed up in their heads.
Why should they get approval and a free pass to demonstrate to impressionable children their bigotry against real women and to instill confusion and a misplaced disrespect in children for their own mothers and other real women who dress, talk and behave like ordinary, normal female human beings? Young impressionable children need as much normalcy and mental stability and sense of safety as possible in their lives, not messed up resentful drag queens with a disguised hate-on agenda against real women.
Speaking as a woman it's become a real sore point with me in recent years. I didn't always feel the same as I do now but back in those days I didn't feel like people were getting slapped in the face with drag the way it's happening now, and now I feel more resentful that they've started exposing their abnormality to young children too.
It's inappropriate, it serves no useful or good purpose and I strongly disagree with it. I also don't like drag queen contests being shown on some reality TV shows on broadcasting stations that proclaim to be family friendly. If these men insist on drag queening then let them return to the gay bars to do it where they'll be more appreciated by their audience. Not in the library or school rooms or children's birthday parties and not in the homes of families with young kiddies in the house.
The only true purpose of drag queening is to enable certain types of men to clothe themselves as freakishly dressed and painted up clown caricatures and make a cartoonish mockery of all women under the guise of comedic entertainment. They aren't being funny, they're being resentful and abnormal extremists who are messed up in their heads.
Why should they get approval and a free pass to demonstrate to impressionable children their bigotry against real women and to instill confusion and a misplaced disrespect in children for their own mothers and other real women who dress, talk and behave like ordinary, normal female human beings? Young impressionable children need as much normalcy and mental stability and sense of safety as possible in their lives, not messed up resentful drag queens with a disguised hate-on agenda against real women.
Speaking as a woman it's become a real sore point with me in recent years. I didn't always feel the same as I do now but back in those days I didn't feel like people were getting slapped in the face with drag the way it's happening now, and now I feel more resentful that they've started exposing their abnormality to young children too.
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So what is your opinion on Drag Kings? Harmless?
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