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Old 11-16-2019, 06:51 PM
 
9,129 posts, read 2,655,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Why is being able to prevent more infections that cause misery and can cause permanent disability and death a Bad Thing?
You approve of posters cursing at other posters? Apparently so.

 
Old 11-16-2019, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
24,504 posts, read 29,529,784 times
Reputation: 30445
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
You approve of posters cursing at other posters? Apparently so.
My response was to your question, "How many vaccines is enough?"

It had nothing to do with cursing.

Why is being able to prevent more infections that cause misery and can cause permanent disability and death a Bad Thing?
 
Old 11-16-2019, 08:02 PM
 
307 posts, read 169,388 times
Reputation: 1187
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Why is being able to prevent more infections that cause misery and can cause permanent disability and death a Bad Thing?
In a vacuum, it is not. In reality, the costs and trade-offs must be considered. When the huge spike in recommended childhood vaccines happens to track with a huge spike in the percentage of children suffering from immune-related diseases and disorders, and there have been no studies of the long-term effects of the current recommended vaccine schedule, it is reasonable to ask what proof there is that the benefits in alleged disease prevention outweigh the costs of hyper-stimulating our children's immune systems.
 
Old 11-16-2019, 08:37 PM
Status: "Happy New Year!" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
88,633 posts, read 104,981,334 times
Reputation: 34139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaAma View Post
In a vacuum, it is not. In reality, the costs and trade-offs must be considered. When the huge spike in recommended childhood vaccines happens to track with a huge spike in the percentage of children suffering from immune-related diseases and disorders, and there have been no studies of the long-term effects of the current recommended vaccine schedule, it is reasonable to ask what proof there is that the benefits in alleged disease prevention outweigh the costs of hyper-stimulating our children's immune systems.
Please document this "huge spike in the percentage of children suffering from immune-related diseases and disorders" with peer-reviewed literature.

You need to understand how the immune system works. You are aware that the diseases also "hyper-stimulate" a child's immune system, yes?
 
Old 11-16-2019, 09:04 PM
 
111 posts, read 26,494 times
Reputation: 226
My daughter has a friend who grew up within a religious group that doesn't vaccinate. He told her neither he nor his family members suffer cold viruses, flu, or other illnesses.
 
Old 11-16-2019, 09:15 PM
 
2,138 posts, read 984,459 times
Reputation: 3851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Withinpines View Post
Thank you. This thread is not about pets, but vaccines also harm animals, esp mandated vaccines. I "naturally rear" my animals because I've witnessed them seize after receiving vaccines, develop various cancers etc.. My point here is vaccines ARE dangerous. They can harm pets, they can harm us.....
You are willing to allow your pets to die from rabies or bordetella? That sounds very cruel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Withinpines View Post
My daughter has a friend who grew up within a religious group that doesn't vaccinate. He told her neither he nor his family members suffer cold viruses, flu, or other illnesses.
My Dad and my grandparents grew up at a time when vaccinations were either not available at all or were very rare. Lots of people they knew died of preventable disease. If your daughter's friend's people were exposed to the flu, colds, etc, they would get them. If exposed to more serious diseases, they might well die.
 
Old 11-16-2019, 10:06 PM
 
7,681 posts, read 4,255,196 times
Reputation: 16639
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Find a medical doctor who will go on record and say without fear: Vaccines did XYZ to this child.
NEVER. GONNA. HAPPEN.

That's the reality. Know another "wonder drug" that NEVER has any severe side effects ever to anyone at any age or dose or booster or illness or manufacturer or combination?

Yeah, Me neither. /faceplant/
So show us the package insert for any immunization that promises what you claim. That should be very simple for an "expert." Empty claims do not bolster your argument.
 
Old 11-16-2019, 10:13 PM
 
7,681 posts, read 4,255,196 times
Reputation: 16639
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
You asked what 'antivaxxers' were willing to consider as far as vaccines.

I was explaining why you would be hard pressed to find any who would consider ever vaccinating with any vaccine; ever again.

I'm trying to help you understand because I am a very rare & stupid bird. Most people only have to bury one child to have learned their lesson.

Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me. Right?

Well, I was severely traumatized after my daughters death & as an RN; I blamed MYSELF for her death as I was unable to resuscitate her. This was not a sane thought & I know this now. She was too far gone when I found her but ... when her grandma said, just hours after her death; 'Christine, didn't they just get their (she was a twin) shots yesterday?' ... I freaked out. I was also very provaccine at the time & 'blaming' her death on vaccines challenged my narrative that this was all my fault.

So I blocked it out. Refused to consider it.

And 10 years later my youngest son suffered Encephalopathy after a vaccine & regressed into severe autism within 6 months. I now have a severely & permanently disabled child who will need 1:1 care for the rest of his life.

So if you want to know what the spectrum of thoughts are in the mind of an antivaxxer? You have found the right person but if you want to change the mind of an antivaxxer; I'm afraid you won't get far with me. I'm a fool, obviously; just not THAT much of a fool, lol.

Anecdotal evidence plays a very big role in science. When the anecdotal continues to defy the epidemiology; it is SUPPOSED to suggest the epidemiology is biased. Not a conspiracy theory.



Exactly. See? That didn't take long.
You'll have to excuse me if I elect not to accept unsupported claims as evidence. I would note not a single bit of support for the legal argument you had introduced earlier.
 
Old 11-16-2019, 10:16 PM
 
111 posts, read 26,494 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
You are willing to allow your pets to die from rabies or bordetella? That sounds very cruel.



My Dad and my grandparents grew up at a time when vaccinations were either not available at all or were very rare. Lots of people they knew died of preventable disease. If your daughter's friend's people were exposed to the flu, colds, etc, they would get them. If exposed to more serious diseases, they might well die.
Wrong. They have intact immune systems BECAUSE they've received no vaccines. Rabies vaccines are mandated ONLY as a means of protecting humans in the unlikely event the dog SHOULD contract rabies. How cruddy is that? Dogs are made to needlessly suffer ONLY to protect us? Bats are the only carrier of rabies where I live. Google this, so you're better informed. Look up the rabies stats where you live. Many people no longer vaccinate their pets for the same reasons they no longer vaccinate their children or themselves....

Last edited by Withinpines; 11-16-2019 at 10:25 PM..
 
Old 11-16-2019, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
24,504 posts, read 29,529,784 times
Reputation: 30445
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaAma View Post
In a vacuum, it is not. In reality, the costs and trade-offs must be considered. When the huge spike in recommended childhood vaccines happens to track with a huge spike in the percentage of children suffering from immune-related diseases and disorders, and there have been no studies of the long-term effects of the current recommended vaccine schedule, it is reasonable to ask what proof there is that the benefits in alleged disease prevention outweigh the costs of hyper-stimulating our children's immune systems.
Vaccines have been studied to see if they might cause autoimmune diseases. There is no evidence that they do.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.o...tent/111/3/653

Vaccines work. There is no "alleged" about it. That is why you do not have to worry about your child getting smallpox. Vaccination eradicated it worldwide. Polio has been eliminated in the US and is nearing eradication worldwide.

Vaccine preventable diseases truly "hyperstimulate" the immune system. That is how they make people sick and sometimes kill them. In comparison, the organisms is vaccines are either dead or weakened. Getting the disease is like boxing with Mike Tyson. Taking the vaccine is like participating in a pillow fight by comparison.
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