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Old 11-17-2019, 02:18 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
6,118 posts, read 2,717,126 times
Reputation: 19284

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0304072832.htm

"Large scientific studies do not support claims that vaccines may cause chronic diseases such as asthma, multiple sclerosis, chronic arthritis and diabetes, according to a report in the March 2003 issue of Pediatrics."

The risk of Guillain Barre syndrome after flu infection is about 18 times higher than after flu vaccination. Since most people recover from GBS it is not a chronic autoimmune disease.

Your Pediatrics article is from 1957. It refers specifically to smallpox vaccine. Did you know smallpox has been eradicated worldwide - by vaccination? The smallpox vaccine is no longer routinely administered, anywhere in the world.
My point was that you telling another poster that vaccines have nothing to do with immune-disorders was entirely false.

Vaccines are not causing death & disability like smoking did not cause lung cancer. You can copy & paste all day long & it won't change the truth.

 
Old 11-17-2019, 02:34 PM
Status: "Happy New Year!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
88,582 posts, read 104,925,784 times
Reputation: 34109
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
You are right. Not only did they not support it but they couldn't prove them wrong either. It took inside whistle-blowers & leaked documents to do that.

But they didn't mind borrowing their epidemiology playbook to use for vaccines.
Oh, baloney. Tobacco was being studied by health experts in the 1920s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_smoking

While the tobacco companies were/are well funded, and put up a pretty strong front against research that showed smoking is harmful, there was no vast conspiracy that it took "whistle blowers" and leaked documents to show tobacco is harmful.

Here's another article: https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/t...-movement.html
 
Old 11-17-2019, 02:42 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
6,118 posts, read 2,717,126 times
Reputation: 19284
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I’m sure that vaccination laws play a small role in some people’s decision to homeschool. I sure hope that if the laws surrounding vaccines become as strict as the laws in NY and CA in every state that legislators won’t start targeting homeschoolers and requiring hat they get vaccinated for everything on the schedule, or else. I worry about that. People should have choice when it comes to their body and medical interventions.
I don't know about CA but the wording in NY A-99 is ominous & doesn't even specify only children.

Quote:
UPON DETERMINING BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT THE HEALTH
OF OTHERS IS OR MAY BE ENDANGERED BY A CASE, CONTACT OR CARRIER, OR
SUSPECTED CASE, CONTACT OR CARRIER OF A CONTAGIOUS DISEASE THAT, IN THE
OPINION OF THE GOVERNOR, AFTER CONSULTATION WITH THE COMMISSIONER, MAY
POSE AN IMMINENT AND SIGNIFICANT THREAT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH RESULTING
IN SEVERE MORBIDITY OR HIGH MORTALITY, THE GOVERNOR OR HIS OR HER DELE-
GEE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE COMMISSIONER OR THE HEADS OF
LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS, MAY ORDER THE REMOVAL AND/OR DETENTION OF SUCH
A PERSON OR OF A GROUP OF SUCH PERSONS BY ISSUING A SINGLE ORDER, IDEN-
TIFYING SUCH PERSONS EITHER BY NAME OR BY A REASONABLY SPECIFIC
DESCRIPTION OF THE INDIVIDUALS OR GROUP BEING DETAINED
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/a99

Under the complete version of this bill, an adult who declines the flu shot during flu season could be forcibly detained. Homeschoolers could have their children detained (removed) if someone catches the chickenpox.

Each change in the law is just a precursor for the next more restrictive law.
 
Old 11-17-2019, 02:47 PM
 
10,510 posts, read 6,171,652 times
Reputation: 10355
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
I don't know about CA but the wording in NY A-99 is ominous & doesn't even specify only children.


https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/a99

Under the complete version of this bill, an adult who declines the flu shot during flu season could be forcibly detained. Homeschoolers could have their children detained (removed) if someone catches the chickenpox.

Each change in the law is just a precursor for the next more restrictive law.

NY A-99 is pretty extreme. I am betting a lot of New Yorkers are Ben aware of this pending legislation and how it might impact them.

I agree with you that it seems like each change in the law is just a precursor for the next more restrictive law. California and NY are perfect examples of this.

In my state of CO, homeschoolers would get caught up in the immunization laws. Many homeschoolers attend public enrichments, one day a week. If the state did away with personal and religious exemptions, many homeschoolers would lose access to these one day a week programs.
 
Old 11-17-2019, 03:34 PM
 
2,127 posts, read 979,294 times
Reputation: 3807
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
Umm; what?



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10714532

Gillian-Barr & chronic arthritis are table injuries. https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/f...njurytable.pdf

Eczema is a contraindication for vaccination.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/22/2/259
A contraindication means that if the patient has that issue, they shouldn't get vaccinated. That has nothing to do with what we've been discussing, and, in fact, those would be the folks that could get a disease and die because an unvaccinated child exposed them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
And YOU don't get to decide more children must die or be injured because you have an irrational fear of illnesses easily treated with IVF, sup O2 &/or antibiotics.

Or because that YOU also fear your own vaccines won't protect YOUR health. THAT'S irrational.

You should have the right to protect your health with vaccines but you don't have the right to demand that I sacrifice my own health for yours.
I don't have a fear of vaccinations because I stand a much higher chance of dying from the disease than I do from the vaccination. Would you have avoided the smallpox vaccination, when smallpox has a mortality rate of 60% or more in some populations. I would much rather have been able to have vaccinations against measles, rubella, and chickenpox than to have had the diseases, but the vaccines weren't available when I was an infant, so I ended up having the diseases. My Mom's brother would have loved to ahve had the mumps vaccine available, rather than becoming sterile from the disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
My point was that you telling another poster that vaccines have nothing to do with immune-disorders was entirely false.

Vaccines are not causing death & disability like smoking did not cause lung cancer. You can copy & paste all day long & it won't change the truth.
Vaccines cause death and disability in a very small percentage of patients, far smaller than the number that suffer death or disability from the diseases.
 
Old 11-17-2019, 03:36 PM
 
16,473 posts, read 18,510,084 times
Reputation: 16341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Withinpines View Post
Wrong. They have intact immune systems BECAUSE they've received no vaccines. Rabies vaccines are mandated ONLY as a means of protecting humans in the unlikely event the dog SHOULD contract rabies. How cruddy is that? Dogs are made to needlessly suffer ONLY to protect us? Bats are the only carrier of rabies where I live. Google this, so you're better informed. Look up the rabies stats where you live. Many people no longer vaccinate their pets for the same reasons they no longer vaccinate their children or themselves....
You seriously have no real idea how the immune system works and you don't seem to believe in data.

https://pcouk.org/chapter.aspx?secti...93&bookid=1353

Quote:
Immunity is the ability of the human body to protect itself from infectious disease. The defense mechanisms of the body are complex and include innate (non-specific, non-adaptive) mechanisms and acquired (specific, adaptive) systems.
Innate or non-specific immunity is present from birth and includes physical barriers (e.g. intact skin and mucous membranes), chemical barriers (e.g. gastric acid, digestive enzymes and bacteriostatic fatty acids of the skin), phagocytic cells and the complement system.
Acquired immunity is generally specific to a single organism or to a group of closely related organisms. There are two basic mechanisms for acquiring immunity – active and passive.
Quote:
From birth and in early infancy and childhood, humans are exposed to countless numbers of foreign antigens and infectious agents in the everyday environment. Responding to these stimuli helps the immune system to develop and mature. Compared with exposure in the natural environment, vaccines provide specific stimulation to a small number of antigens. Responding to these specific antigens uses only a tiny proportion of the capacity of an infant’s immune system (Offit et al., 2002). If an infant’s immune system could be exhausted by multiple vaccines, one would expect vaccinated children to be at a higher risk of serious infections. Studies to investigate whether vaccines increase susceptibility to serious infections have shown no evidence of such an effect, with infection rates generally being lower in vaccinated children (Hviid et al., 2005, Miller et al., 2003).
 
Old 11-17-2019, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
24,479 posts, read 29,505,172 times
Reputation: 30385
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
I don't know about CA but the wording in NY A-99 is ominous & doesn't even specify only children.


https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/a99

Under the complete version of this bill, an adult who declines the flu shot during flu season could be forcibly detained. Homeschoolers could have their children detained (removed) if someone catches the chickenpox.

Each change in the law is just a precursor for the next more restrictive law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
NY A-99 is pretty extreme. I am betting a lot of New Yorkers are Ben aware of this pending legislation and how it might impact them.

I agree with you that it seems like each change in the law is just a precursor for the next more restrictive law. California and NY are perfect examples of this.

In my state of CO, homeschoolers would get caught up in the immunization laws. Many homeschoolers attend public enrichments, one day a week. If the state did away with personal and religious exemptions, many homeschoolers would lose access to these one day a week programs.
The proposed law was precipitated by the measles outbreaks in Orthodox Jewish communities this past year. People were being deliberately exposed to measles. Infected and exposed persons would not stay home.

You may want to thank the anti-vaxers who interfered with control of the outbreaks for the new law.

"Detention", by the way, means quarantine. It is an old concept for the control of infectious disease outbreaks.
 
Old 11-17-2019, 04:08 PM
 
10,510 posts, read 6,171,652 times
Reputation: 10355
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The proposed law was precipitated by the measles outbreaks in Orthodox Jewish communities this past year. People were being deliberately exposed to measles. Infected and exposed persons would not stay home.

You may want to thank the anti-vaxers who interfered with control of the outbreaks for the new law.

"Detention", by the way, means quarantine. It is an old concept for the control of infectious disease outbreaks.

It’s extreme and I won’t thank the ultra-orthodox county for such draconian legislation all because of a measles outbreak. That community wasn’t terrified of measles like a lot of people seem to be.

I’m assuming you’d be in favor of a mandating vaccines for homeschoolers?
 
Old 11-17-2019, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
24,479 posts, read 29,505,172 times
Reputation: 30385
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
It’s extreme and I won’t thank the ultra-orthodox county for such draconian legislation all because of a measles outbreak. That community wasn’t terrified of measles like a lot of people seem to be.

I’m assuming you’d be in favor of a mandating vaccines for homeschoolers?
No, they were terrified by anti-vax propaganda telling them the vaccine would cause autism. It's the anti-vaxers who did the terrifying that you should be thanking.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ssages-n993596

https://gothamist.com/news/how-ortho...heir-community

I have already said I think everyone who has no medical contraindication should be up to date on recommended vaccines. That includes adults and home schooled children. Those that do not want more mandates should stop trying to recruit others not to vaccinate.
 
Old 11-17-2019, 05:05 PM
 
10,510 posts, read 6,171,652 times
Reputation: 10355
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
No, they were terrified by anti-vax propaganda telling them the vaccine would cause autism. It's the anti-vaxers who did the terrifying that you should be thanking.
The group (PEACH) who was said to have created the handout was a group of Jewish mothers. Without seeing the pamphlet, I have no idea if it’s propaganda or not.
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