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Old 12-31-2019, 03:25 AM
 
Location: Seattle
283 posts, read 123,014 times
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That's not every child. Some kids are unruly. And a few cultures in the US would disagree with your statement.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:11 AM
 
1,657 posts, read 1,058,736 times
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Spanking a child is simply lazy and stupid parenting, at best. At worst ...

Some people will make any excuse to hit a child.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:51 AM
 
2,108 posts, read 797,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
If a child moves to touch a hot stove and is spanked, the child will most likely learn not to touch the stove anymore. However, what they won't learn is ​why they shouldn't touch a stove. Instead, you prevent them from touching the stove and then show them that it is hot and can burn.

I am curious as to exactly how you would demonstrate that to a 3-year-old (for example.) If a gas stove, would you turn on a burner and let it ignite a piece of paper? If an electric stove, do you hold the child's hand close enough to the hot surface that they can feel the heat of it? Seriously, I am intrigued by the mechanics of how you would demonstrate the actual danger in a way that such a young child could truly understand.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
3,972 posts, read 9,551,509 times
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Spanking is never acceptable and is not parenting. Children should be disciplined. Discipline, however, is NOT physical punishment (or any other type of abuse).
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Old 12-31-2019, 09:05 AM
 
1,244 posts, read 467,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
So many allegations.

So little backup, proof, or even references.
Oh honey, let me spend 2 seconds on google for ya':

Quote:
Physical punishment of children: lessons from 20 years of research

Numerous studies have found that physical punishment increases the risk of broad and enduring negative developmental outcomes.

No study has found that physical punishment enhances developmental health.

Most child physical abuse occurs in the context of punishment.

A professional consensus is emerging that parents should be supported in learning nonviolent, effective approaches to discipline.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/
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Old 12-31-2019, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
23,222 posts, read 22,500,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
Hitting is hitting, period! A spank or slap is just as bad as a beating IMHO! Both can scar a child mentally.
You apparently have never been beaten.
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Old 12-31-2019, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
3,972 posts, read 9,551,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBCjunkie View Post
I am curious as to exactly how you would demonstrate that to a 3-year-old (for example.) If a gas stove, would you turn on a burner and let it ignite a piece of paper? If an electric stove, do you hold the child's hand close enough to the hot surface that they can feel the heat of it? Seriously, I am intrigued by the mechanics of how you would demonstrate the actual danger in a way that such a young child could truly understand.
Supervision and baby-proofing. And supervision. Lots of supervision. Did I mention supervision?

You're making an assumption that the 3 year old would get burned and learn a lesson to not touch the stove. He/she might remember the hot stove for about 5 minutes and then try to touch it again an hour later. It's just what they do. The job of a toddler is to explore through their senses, including touch. They are wired to do this.

My 3 year old helped in the kitchen, under my supervision. He was given simple tasks, positive encouragement, and safety rules. Repeat everything I just typed out. It's an ongoing thing.

I think that's my point: you can't show/tell/burn a child and then move on to the next thing.
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Old 12-31-2019, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Winterpeg
1,011 posts, read 395,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Because a very young pre school kid is not that capable at rational explanations of why they should not do things. Another reason is that with very young kids you may need to do something fast to make an impression--like a swat on the bottom if they are starting to run into the road or a slap on the hand if they are about to touch a hot stove.

The tiny bit of pain gets through to the just in time to prevent major injury so it is the lesser of two evils--by far.

Real spankings probably don't happen very often anymore but they were common in the 1950s and in certain case, with certain kids, they worked. But routine hard spanking never is a good idea. If kids have ever been actually beaten in this country, it was by a crazy person. No one should be anybody. A swat is different from a painful, hard physical beating.
As to the bold, neither are dogs. I train dogs for a living. Never had to hit one of them to train them. Or physically discipline them. Cognitively they are similar to toddlers.

The science is out there. Physical punishment isn't training, and often has unintended side effects. Sure - some kids, and some dogs, are built in such a way that they won't be phased by being hit. But most will. So why be violent with them when there are other methods that have a better outcome, and don't require the teacher to be physical with them? In my experience talking with people who have taken their dogs to punishment trainers, most people don't want to hit. It's not in their nature. So they seek out other methods, which is cool. The people who are happy to hit don't care about relationships, they want instant robotic obedience, no matter what's going on and what might happen in the future.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:10 AM
 
16,469 posts, read 18,496,785 times
Reputation: 16331
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBCjunkie View Post
I am curious as to exactly how you would demonstrate that to a 3-year-old (for example.) If a gas stove, would you turn on a burner and let it ignite a piece of paper? If an electric stove, do you hold the child's hand close enough to the hot surface that they can feel the heat of it? Seriously, I am intrigued by the mechanics of how you would demonstrate the actual danger in a way that such a young child could truly understand.
I would use a science experiment about hot and cold not the actual burner. Once they understand what hot means, they will stay away from things you label as hot. Obviously, you can't use something that will actually burn the child, but you can illustrate hot and cold as a concept. You can use a hair dryer for example and blow hot air for the child to feel.

Learning About Hot and Cold | WonderBaby.org

You can also fill a sink with hot water, say *hot* and let the child touch it (you don't want to make it too hot, but you can make it uncomfortable.

Children know if something is hot or cold. From an early age, they are told not to touch a hot stove and to wear a coat when it’s cold outside. This understanding of temperature is a good starting point to teach the differences in temperature. You can use the weather outside for both hot and cold as a starting point.
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:14 AM
 
2,108 posts, read 797,768 times
Reputation: 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
I would use a science experiment about hot and cold not the actual burner. Once they understand what hot means, they will stay away from things you label as hot.
Ah, I see that I misunderstood the wording of your previous post; when you said "show them that it is hot and can burn", I interpreted "show" as meaning to demonstrate, and "it" as meaning that object specifically.

Yes, very young ones can easily pick up concepts. My granddaughter is not even a year and half but she already understands the concept of "dirty" and that such things (hands, floor, etc) need to be washed and/or wiped clean ASAP.

My mom often told me a story that happened when I was about 3 years old, back in the pre-permanent-press days when ironing everything was necessary. My mom thought she had taught me never to touch the iron, "because it is very hot and will burn you." She would always point to the iron's surface and tell me to "Never EVER touch this!" In order to keep an eye on me while ironing, she would bring my little chair into the same room right next to her along with some picture books and toys to keep me occupied. One day she finished ironing one of the bedsheets, placed the iron into the upright (vertical) position at the narrow end of the ironing board, and started folding the sheet up. Naturally she had to look at the sheet, rather than me, to do this. In that minute or so while she was doing that, I saw the shiny surface of the iron, stood on my little chair, and placed the palm of my right hand full onto the iron's hot surface. According to my mom, my screams and the resulting blisters were horrible. All it took was that littlest bit of inattention, and yet my mom was the most overprotective person on the face of the earth (way too much so; for example, she never even allowed me to take phys ed in school, lest I'd get accidentally hurt) for her entire life.

Obviously the "shiny object" appeal overrode the "hot" concept in my toddler brain. If I even had understood what the words "hot" and "burn" actually meant, who knows; I definitely did so afterwards though.

Last edited by BBCjunkie; 12-31-2019 at 11:29 AM..
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