Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S
I had a neighbor with 5 kids.....the older kids were surrogate parents to the younger kids. When it go sad, the parents were too busy to attend the youngest kids school plays/events.........they already did that boring stuff with the oldest kids. Parents should have had less kids, supported those kids more rather than spread their time thinner with the larger group. 
My father's family: 6 sons!  Only one son got married for more than a month, that one son was the only one of the 6 to ever have children. Decades later those 4 grandchildren produced 10 great grandchildren. So big families don't always produce tons of offspring.  |
I personally do not think five children is unreasonable, and I have known people to parent their own children, not to foist it off on older children; who have 4 - 8 children.
They planned their families and it was not part of a religious movement, specifically, "The Quiver Full Movement", which also asserts Christian Dominionism - the idea that Christians of their ilk, Christian Fundamentalists, specifically, should take charge of this country - the US - and dominate politically, socially and of course, religiously, subjugating others who do not share their beliefs.
The important factor is that the family is planned and the needs of the children are met.
Living "barracks style" with closely spaced bunk beds, ridged schedules, isolation from other children besides a select few, wearing bizarre attire - e,g. The Duggars, such as voluminous bathing suits on girls, is symptomatic of a CULT - not a FAMILY.
When a family decides to have children beyond 9, and certain other features are present - home school, social isolation, home church, cramped sleeping quarters, a lack of individualism among the children, lack of participation in non religious clubs, sports or activities, ritualized and excessive corporal punishment, lack of meaningful contact with people who do not share their world view, lack of medical care, I think that investigation by social services is NOT out of order.
I am NOT a fan of "Home School". I am on record on this forum in this regard. There are few situations where I think "Home Schooling" is a reasonable choice. When it IS employed, children who are "home schooled" should have the same services and professional, outside over-sight, as children as children who attend school outside of the home.
Adults can join whatever type of religious group they want, including cults. Once a child or children enter the picture, that all changes.
This is the RIGHT of the CHILD. Infants under the age of 18 in ALL civilized industrialized nations, should ideally, have these rights -
1. The Right to reasonable health care by a credentialed, professional, health care provider. (physician,physician's assistant, osteopath (D.O) or nurse practitioner.
2, The right to dental care administered by a dental professional.
3. The right to an education. This education should be provided by, or ultimately monitored by, an educational professional, a school teacher, who possesses a four year college degree, and the endorsement of their state. The day to day teaching can be done by a para-professional or teaching assistant, (parent) who is certified as a teaching para professional. Children educated at home should be able to pass state competency tests. They should learn usual subjects - 1. Arithmetic, Mathematics, 2. English / language arts, 3. History, Social Studies, 4. Science, from a secular scientific prospective (even if they are taught that their church disagrees with it, they should know what children who are educated outside home know and be able to take a test to that effect) appropriate to their grade level. 5. Creative Arts, painting, drawing, crafts, movement/dance and music. 6 Physical education including sports for pleasure.
School should NOT be limited to 1. Bible, 2, Religious Studies 3. Child care (taught by taking of the responsibilities of the parents, or farm work, automotive care, animal care, gardening, cooking and sewing. I am in no way saying that any of these are foolish endeavors, but they are not a substitute for academics.
Home Economics and Industrial Arts are, in many states and school districts taught in middle school, junior HS or early HS to both boys and girls.
Many states offer vocational education to high school students - however, they must still learn academic subjects.
I am most familiar with my home state of NY, which provides vocational education free of charge (paid by taxes) to students interested in graduating high school with a trade or career. I think that NY State has an excellent program of technical/vocational education that is referred to as "BOCES" an acronym for "Board Of Cooperative Educational Services".
Typically, during 10th - 12th grade, students take academic subjects in the morning. After lunch, they are usually bussed to another location, where they study their chosen trade.
Since New York is a very large and diverse state, with rural, suburban and urban centers, the trades taught are equally diverse.
They include, but are not limited to the following -
1. Automotive repair, mechanical and body shop 2. Animal care - both Large Animal Care ( equestrian studies, agriculture, etc. and Small Animal Care - Dog grooming and training, vet tech, veterinary assistant. 3.Construction trades, 4. Plumbing 5. Electrician 6. Information Technology, computers 7. Audio visual, sound and recording, 8. Business, commercial and office skills 9. Allied Health studies - nursing assistant, practical nursing, dental assistant, sonographer, medical office assistant, laboratory assistant etc, 10. hairdresser, barber, etc. 11. Graphic art, design, fashion industry, 12. performing arts, film, photography. 13, Early childhood care 14. Culinary Arts and many others.
I am sure that other states have similar programs, The point is, this opportunity, is NOT AVAILABLE to "Home Schooled" minors. Vocational school is NOT THE SAME as doing chores - house work or farm hand. baby sitting or being their parent's servants cooks or dishwashers.
.
Vocational school is NOT the same as being used as a servant or nanny. The fact that the Duggars called their daughters "midwives" is dangerous and misleading. How DARE they!
Midwifery is a profession, not a trade and it requires four years of college AND a masters degree in nursing.
This is not the 1700s, it's the 21st century. These people are neither pilgrims nor pioneers. Telling people that your daughter is a midwife, when she lacks even a HS diploma and a basic education, is ignorant at LEAST and FRAUD at worst. I think people like the duggars are BOTH.
Minor children ALSO have the right not to be physically abused and beaten with plastic plumbing tubing, which is what this fanatic named Perls, recommends to his religious fanatic followers.
Bruises and welts are often noticed during PE class, swimming or other sports, They are noticed by teachers, coaches and sometimes other students.
If children never leave the house, as with these "home schooled" children, who will notice and report this? Someone of the same gender as the child, should make monthly and unannounced home visits since this form of "discipline" is THE STANDARD METHOD of abuse by "home school fanatics. IT IS FACT.
Finally there is the subject of sexual abuse. AT LEAST one of the Duggar daughters was sexually molested by a brother, I am sure this is NOT an ISOLATED INCIDENT. Thru connections, the badly damaged son received a slap on the wrist! Any counseling was from the same place as the abuse arose - the family and their crazy church.
Since these Mega Families do not engage in Normal age appropriate relationships with friends of the opposite sex, it is, in some ways, easy to understand.
Home schooled children need protection - FROM THEIR PARENTS and their siblings. Hoe can this happen when they are never seen by impartial person?
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Everything you've said about Mormons (except for the spelling 
) was right on, not to mention the fact that, when coming from a non-Mormons such as yourself, this information will probably be more likely to be accepted as accurate than if had I posted it myself. I appreciate your taking the time to set the record straight.