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Old 04-01-2020, 08:19 AM
 
9 posts, read 5,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
Has she been in daycare? If so, can the daycare provider give you any insight?
Yes, she goes to daycare full-time (well, prior to coronavirus). The tantrums/meltdowns are much less frequent and less intense at school from what they tell us, but we did have to come get her on one occasion when she scratched up the director's arms. They referred us to some resources that specialize in all the usual stuff from behavior issues to autism. That was the turning point where my wife contacted counselors and OTs because we were afraid she might get kicked out of daycare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Twist View Post
Don't ever leave her alone, not even for just a few minutes, with the baby.
I have been thinking about this as well. She got particularly mad at my wife one night and threatened to "kick the baby in the head." It's a sad thought to not trust your daughter. Just to keep it in perspective, though, she says about 100 times more sweet things about her brother-to-be than angry things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Did I miss the timeframe on this - has it been weeks, months? And how much of her day is consumed by these meltdowns? And is it every day? Just trying to get a sense of whether this is chronic or acute.
It's weird but I can't pinpoint a first time. I think she's always been a difficult child, prone to tantrums and didn't sleep well early on. I remember being jealous of our friends that had chill babies. Two summers ago we went to the beach with 2 other families. Each family had a 2-3 year old child. Her meltdowns were severe and several times a day. It ruined the vacation for us and was very embarrassing as her tantrums were so much worse than the other kids. We assumed she was just getting over stimulated. I would say that's my first memory of them being physical like hitting, throwing stuff and screaming herself hoarse. Since then we've had weeks where there weren't any and we think it's getting better, followed by a week where it is every night. Weekends can be particularly bad, we can have more than one a day. For the longest time the nightly routine was my wife taking her upstairs for a bath while I'm downstairs working or tidying up and then I wait for the screaming as my cue to come upstairs and intervene.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
48,404 posts, read 46,693,254 times
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Are there any other relevant experiences or medical issues she's had that you aren't mentioning here?
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:41 AM
 
9 posts, read 5,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
Are there any other relevant experiences or medical issues she's had that you aren't mentioning here?
No. She's a perfectly healthy 4 year old, besides the tubes in her ears around 1. We haven't moved, no loss of family members or loved ones, been in the same daycare since she was 6 months old, mom and dad were married before she was born and still together. I can't pinpoint a possible "trauma" or anything like that.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
9,642 posts, read 7,214,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy2dd View Post
Yes, she goes to daycare full-time (well, prior to coronavirus). The tantrums/meltdowns are much less frequent and less intense at school from what they tell us, but we did have to come get her on one occasion when she scratched up the director's arms. They referred us to some resources that specialize in all the usual stuff from behavior issues to autism. That was the turning point where my wife contacted counselors and OTs because we were afraid she might get kicked out of daycare.



I have been thinking about this as well. She got particularly mad at my wife one night and threatened to "kick the baby in the head." It's a sad thought to not trust your daughter. Just to keep it in perspective, though, she says about 100 times more sweet things about her brother-to-be than angry things.



It's weird but I can't pinpoint a first time. I think she's always been a difficult child, prone to tantrums and didn't sleep well early on.I remember being jealous of our friends that had chill babies. Two summers ago we went to the beach with 2 other families. Each family had a 2-3 year old child. Her meltdowns were severe and several times a day. It ruined the vacation for us and was very embarrassing as her tantrums were so much worse than the other kids. We assumed she was just getting over stimulated. I would say that's my first memory of them being physical like hitting, throwing stuff and screaming herself hoarse. Since then we've had weeks where there weren't any and we think it's getting better, followed by a week where it is every night. Weekends can be particularly bad, we can have more than one a day. For the longest time the nightly routine was my wife taking her upstairs for a bath while I'm downstairs working or tidying up and then I wait for the screaming as my cue to come upstairs and intervene.
I know I'm repeating myself but I'd again talk to the pediatrician about a sleep study.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
48,404 posts, read 46,693,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy2dd View Post
No. She's a perfectly healthy 4 year old, besides the tubes in her ears around 1. We haven't moved, no loss of family members or loved ones, been in the same daycare since she was 6 months old, mom and dad were married before she was born and still together. I can't pinpoint a possible "trauma" or anything like that.
In that case it could be a mood disorder such as Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Can't (and shouldn't) diagnose over the internet, but we can help you narrow down.

One of my sons began having meltdowns at preschool at age 2, but they weren't violent and endless like you describe. He had a tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy that was supposed to make him "a different person," as if that was what I wanted.

But it wasn't a cure. He also was diagnosed with expressive communication problems and enrolled in a speech therapy study at a local university. We also tried play therapy and occupational therapy.

He outgrew the meltdowns, and the "issues" sort of circled around an aspergers-type situation (back when they still used that term), where the doctor told me, "If autism is a 3, your son is at 2.9."

All this is to say that I am familiar with the confusing situation you can find yourself in with a preschooler whose problem MIGHT be related to diet, mental health, developmental disorder, parenting techniques, etc. Sometimes you feel like people are just throwing darts at a board.

But the symptoms you describe mean you need to take this VERY seriously and make it your priority before the baby arrives (as if you already don't). I know this is an unprecedented time to be seeking non-emergency medical treatment, but your daughter desperately needs some intervention therapy. Advocate for her as strongly as you can right now.

I know the situation is beyond difficult and exhausting.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:39 AM
 
Location: NJ
13,183 posts, read 22,896,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
In that case it could be a mood disorder such as Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Can't (and shouldn't) diagnose over the internet, but we can help you narrow down.

One of my sons began having meltdowns at preschool at age 2, but they weren't violent and endless like you describe. He had a tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy that was supposed to make him "a different person," as if that was what I wanted.

But it wasn't a cure. He also was diagnosed with expressive communication problems and enrolled in a speech therapy study at a local university. We also tried play therapy and occupational therapy.

He outgrew the meltdowns, and the "issues" sort of circled around an aspergers-type situation (back when they still used that term), where the doctor told me, "If autism is a 3, your son is at 2.9."

All this is to say that I am familiar with the confusing situation you can find yourself in with a preschooler whose problem MIGHT be related to diet, mental health, developmental disorder, parenting techniques, etc. Sometimes you feel like people are just throwing darts at a board.

But the symptoms you describe mean you need to take this VERY seriously and make it your priority before the baby arrives (as if you already don't). I know this is an unprecedented time to be seeking non-emergency medical treatment, but your daughter desperately needs some intervention therapy. Advocate for her as strongly as you can right now.

I know the situation is beyond difficult and exhausting.
Do they still diagnose ODD? That's what they said my daughter had but I'll be shocked if she doesn't have some form of Autism/ Aspergers. One head of pediatrics in the local university hospital said Aspergers.

Hopefully the OP can get a handle on it with professional help.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
48,404 posts, read 46,693,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post

Do they still diagnose ODD?
I haven't heard or read otherwise.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:56 AM
 
281 posts, read 162,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
OP. I think you are handling this pretty well.

I would like mom to NOT walk on eggshells around daughter. She is being manipulated by daughter.

I wonder if daughter is feeling extreme anxiety about new baby? Did this behavior begin after she found out about new baby’s arrival?

You might begin keeping a record of when daughter becomes aggressive. You would be looking for triggers.

And IMO, both of you need to emphasize that calling people names will not be allowed in your home. She will have to abide by that rule when she starts school, for sure.

I disagree about locking yourselves away when she has a meltdown. She could do damage to herself or possessions. I get that she might like an audience, though.

These are my thoughts, as a parent.
What do you recommend instead?

That's what a therapist advised us to do. Granted, therapists don't know everything. But out of everything we've tried, it's been the most successful. I would think our own personal safety would come first over damage to possessions.

But if you have any ideas, please, I'd love to hear. I am a parent who is in a similar situation as the OP.
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:02 AM
 
281 posts, read 162,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
Do they still diagnose ODD? That's what they said my daughter had but I'll be shocked if she doesn't have some form of Autism/ Aspergers. One head of pediatrics in the local university hospital said Aspergers.

Hopefully the OP can get a handle on it with professional help.
Yes, they still diagnose ODD. There is no medication for it specifically, per our pediatrician and one therapist. Behavioral therapy is the treatment protocol for ODD. But ODD is not often diagnosed by itself, it's usually tacked on to other disorders (depending on age).
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
48,404 posts, read 46,693,254 times
Reputation: 94774
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Ivy View Post
Yes, they still diagnose ODD. There is no medication for it specifically, per our pediatrician and one therapist. Behavioral therapy is the treatment protocol for ODD. But ODD is not often diagnosed by itself, it's usually tacked on to other disorders (depending on age).
Exactly, and they often start with ADD and recommend medication, but not always for a 4-year-old.

That's what makes this kind of thing SO hard to grasp. When you're dealing with a child who isn't able to express themselves as an adult, going by the symptoms is your main course of action. But her symptoms could be caused by many things, so it feels like a moving target.
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