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Old 04-30-2020, 05:35 PM
2,366 posts, read 734,284 times
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Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
Are you serious? Yes, it is still asserting power, but not physically. The physical assertion is too much and negatively affects both parties. Just not a good solution - if it was, you would read about it in parenting books: i.e., "If your child acts out, take them to their room and bolt them in - if you do not have a bolt lean against the door for however long it takes your child to quit fighting or pass out . . . "
Yes, I'm serious. If you want to make the argument that physically restraining kids is wrong, go for it; there are plenty of other arguments you could make against it. If you want to base your argument on the fact that it's a power play, while suggesting what can be called another type of power play as an alternative... it doesn't compute. It's still the parent using power they have and the kid lacks to get the kid to do what they want. It's also not much better of an example to set for a child than the one where the person with more physical power "wins."
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Old 04-30-2020, 06:16 PM
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OP. Like mother, like daughter. As you wrote your wife throws tantrums.
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Old 04-30-2020, 06:32 PM
2,009 posts, read 578,465 times
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My 4 yr old just had a tantrum because she wanted daddy to lie down with her and not me.
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Old 04-30-2020, 07:23 PM
Location: Right here; Right now
10,570 posts, read 5,013,301 times
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Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
We have a daughter who's a little over 3 and a half. She's generally been a pretty good kid - she's a little naughty by nature, but smart, creative, funny, and usually full of hugs and sweet words.

Over the last few weeks, she's gone from fussy to throwing out-and-out tantrums before bed. She started out getting really sad about two pets we have who passed away over the last year - "daddy, I miss our doggie," or "mommy, I miss our bird!" Then, she started crying about it. Finally, starting about a week ago, she's thrown screaming tantrums when it comes time to shower and go to bed... hitting us, throwing things, etc. They usually last ten minutes or so but tonight's was over half an hour, and now she's insisting that she wants to play before she goes to bed (it's 10.20pm here).

I have tinnitus and it's gotten worse because she's literally taking a breath in and screaming it out at the top of her lungs and repeating (my left ear is now ringing loudly, constantly). If I try to leave the room to save my ears, my wife starts throwing her own tantrum, thinking I'm abandoning her or shirking my fatherly duties.

The only thing I can think of that's really changed is that she has had a handful of playdates with a friend's kids; my friend and his wife are mellow to a fault but their children are pretty poorly-behaved, throwing frequent tantrums, shouting at you and pulling on your clothes to get what they want, etc. The younger one (5 years old) in particular has hourly outbursts where he throws things and threatens you - after seeing it two times, my daughter has done the same. We've managed to mellow her back out somewhat during the daytime, but nightimes are getting to be unbearable.

Any advice as to what we can do to reign in the screaming and shouting?
I can tell you what I did ...

My x mother-in-law use to tell a story about when her children were younger and my brother-in-law (a small child at the time) threw a temper tantrum in front of her and her mother ... her mother got up; went to the kitchen and filled a sauce pan full of water and dumped it on his head. It shocked him for a minute, then he resumed the tantrum. She turned on her heals and headed back to the kitchen faucet and as she did that, he straightened up real quick and stopped that behavior.

My first born he got to the age of the tantrum and so I gave that idea a whirl. I had tried everything else, even smacking him on his bottom, to curb the behavior had not yielded any positive results.

We were in the kitchen and he threw himself on the floor, wailing and screaming. I didn't use a sauce pan, but a glass of water instead and I poured it on his head. It shocked him for a bit and then he began again, so I poured another glass of water on his head ... that still did not yield a positive result, like it had in the story that my mother-in-law had told.

His father, knowing what I was trying to do, stepped in, told me stop, that it obviously was not working. He picked him up off the kitchen floor; took him to dry him off; put dry pajamas on him, and put him to bed ...

A few months later .... my son tried it again and I was alone with him ... he threw himself onto the kitchen floor and I thought, well the glass of water didn't work, may be, I should try a sauce pan full. So I reached under the cabinet, pulled out a sauce pan and went to the kitchen sink and as soon as my son heard the faucet water run--- he jumped up off the kitchen floor and ran off to his bedroom and threw himself on his bed --- and I thought, well that is the room to do that in. I let him work it out on his own in his room ...

Never had another problem; he's 35 now and I doubt he even remembers it.
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Old 04-30-2020, 11:56 PM
Location: Northern Maine
5,363 posts, read 1,950,345 times
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Originally Posted by Riley09swb View Post
I would walk out of the room (don't go far) and let her scream and cry and chances are she'll stop when she doesn't have an audience.
Nope, she wins by driving you from the room.
Put her in a timeout room.
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Old 05-01-2020, 12:13 AM
Location: Prepperland
14,533 posts, read 10,539,439 times
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Wear ear plugs / protection devices.
Hold her upside down until she stops screaming.
. . .
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:39 AM
Location: Guangzhou, China
10,153 posts, read 13,988,565 times
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Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
I am a parent of a son on the autistic scale.

When you mentioned that your daughter started making these obnoxious sounds that she does sometimes, it made me wonder if maybe it was her 'tic'. Not a tic like uncontrollable muscle tic...but a behavior that a child uses to self-soothe. My son had a couple.

I guess sometimes I think that I see all kids as possibly on the scale...because of my experience...and I'm not saying I know for a fact that your child is on the scale...but maybe think about it.

Kids on the scale do well with having transitional times. They like to know ahead of time what's coming up. "Lucy, when the little hand is on the 8, and the big hand is on the 12, it'll be time to pick up your crayons and put them away, and then I'd like you to pick out a book you'd like me to read to you at bed time." Stuff like that. Or "Lucy, when the big hand and little hand, blah blah blah, it'll be bath time. How about you go pick out a bath toy or 2 to play with during bath time?" Transitions and choices go a long ways to peace.

Also...maybe not throw the toys away. Maybe you could just put it out of her reach for the time being, and tell her she can have it back when she calms down, or the next day or something. Parenting is hard. lol
I consulted a Western specialist located in our city and had her do an evaluation just before the virus outbreak and she said that she doesn't think she's autistic; she does have an obvious "tic," which we discussed, and she has a degree of possessiveness and a hard time accepting turn-taking, but other than that, she's very social and outgoing, has a huge imagination, is very concerned about and attuned to others' emotions, uses a huge amount of facial and body expression, etc.

The bigger concern I have overall in terms of neuroatypical proclitivity is that I'd got ADHD and have struggled with it from my teens onwards; at her age, most of her behaviors seem to hit every indicator for it so, I'm always trying to walk the line between watching for signs and also not being overreactive or pushing my problems onto her. So, we'll see...

I actually did order a wall clock a few days ago with the intention of putting it on the wall and using stickers to mark what we do at certain times to create a very set, visual routine. I'll update after we do so...
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:44 AM
Location: Guangzhou, China
10,153 posts, read 13,988,565 times
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Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
This may sound dumb, but have you had a conversation with her, telling her that her behavior is unacceptable? I would start with that next time she pulls the tantrum stunt. Then I would send her to her room or a time-out zone or whatever. Might create a chart for acceptable behavior, whereby she earns some small treat or privilege. I would definitely let her know the behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Don't be a victim.
Well, I'd certainly have preferred it if the many conversations we'd had about not being naughty would have helped, but up till now, no. If you try to do it while she's going off, she either looks the other way, ragdolls, and goes "GUG-GUG-GUGGY-GUGGY!!" till you're about ready to lose it (if she hasn't started screaming or crying yet), or she screams and goes on the offensive ("NO YOU DON'T ACT NAUGHTY YOU STOP IT" - seriously). She's an obstinate toddler... unfortunately you can't really reason with her until she's calmed down, and left to her own vices, that can take a looooooong time.
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:40 AM
Location: Guangzhou, China
10,153 posts, read 13,988,565 times
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Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
First off, if your wife is angry at you for running away from the kid when she throws a tantrum, then you have a MARITAL issue, in addition to the parenting issue. You've got to have a talk with her, and get on the same page, present a unified front to the child.


Three minutes in a naughty chair is SO not gonna work with this spirited young lady. But I have a feeling she will learn very quickly, as long as you and your wife can agree on how to manage her. If you cannot agree (if her style is to raise a little empress - which might be how she was raised, if she was of the one child policy era), then you are in big trouble. The only thing that will get your wife to stop treating her that way is.... another child.
Originally Posted by GreenPluto
OP. Like mother, like daughter. As you wrote your wife throws tantrums.
Unfortunately, though I didn't want to bring it up, there is definitely some truth to this. My wife is from a two-kid household but, quite contrary to the norm over here, she was the favored child and an unfortunate number of her spoiled-kid behaviors have carried into adulthood - if she wants water or a tissue, regardless of how far she is from it, her first impulse is to ask me to get it for her, regardless of what I'm doing. Anything that is burdensome or unpleasant for her must be taken over by or at least shared with me. Not long after our daughter was born, she recounted one of her most cherished childhood memories: "I had been studying at school and wanted lobster for dinner, and my parents told me we would have it for dinner, but they couldn't find it anywhere. I got so mad, I yelled at my parents and said many rude things, and so my father rode around town for hours, and finally found lobster... I was so happy. That is true love." ... well, yikes. I grew up poor in the US, and if my parents said that we were gonna have pizza next Friday, and we didn't, and I cried about it, then that would have cemented my not eating pizza for weeks.

Without getting into a diatribe about it and giving the impression that our marriage or family life is unpleasant (it's not, really), she has some behaviors that she really needs to work on, and she's made progress over the last year and a half or so, but the problem is that yes, once she gets going, she herself can't stop, and she lacks the skill to control her temper in front of our child. She never will take fault in any disagreement or problem and is very big on assigning blame, which has rubbed off on our daughter - even in a good mood, our daughter notes very specifically that something is someone's fault, and in a bad mood, she will start to say things like "I'm not being naughty, you're being naughty," "I didn't break it, you broke it," etc. I don't like it at all, so I counter it with, "Unless it's a HUGE problem, it's not very nice to tell people that something is their fault. We can know it, but not say anything."

A few times, my wife has heard me saying things like this to our daughter, and said, "was that also meant for me?" or "I guess maybe I need to learn how to be nicer, too." Not in a sarcastic way, either.

Stop the playdates with spoiled brats who throw things at their parents! Encourage playdates with well-behaved children.
After "bedroom time" the other day, when she calmed down, I asked her how she thought of how those two kids acted. She said, "they are really naughty. They like to break their toys and they aren't nice to their mommy and daddy." When I asked her if she thought that was cool, she said, "no, I don't think it's nice, and I shouldn't act like that." So, she understood that she was acting like them, that it was a bad thing and vocalized it on her own, which is good.

Early bedtime. That ensures plenty of sleep for her, and some grown up time for you. Physically active play during the day, but quiet down for an hour or more before bed.
Normal bedtime is around 8.30-9.30; we shower her and get her in PJ's and then it's time to sleep.

If she ever goes to throw a toy at you, take it away, get rid of it, and don't replace it. If she raises her hand at you, send her to her room. Never sit holding a door shut while she screams and tries to pull it open. If necessary, put a bolt on the outside of the room and bolt her in, but do not sit there holding the door shut. It's a form of attention. You want her left alone to exhaust herself with no audience. Of course, if she starts the tantrum in the living room, and you can just walk away from her and lock yourself into your bedroom without risking that she harms herself or anything around her, that would be better. You see, you want to ignore the behavior - and to ignore it, that means you are not interacting with her.
The only reason I held the door is because a few months ago, she locked herself inside the room accidentally and then couldn't figure out how to unlock it... so I had to dig up the key to the room and let her out. I put tape over the lock so she can't do it again. So, the easiest thing is to just hold it shut. I stood on the other side and was pretty much silent on the other side.
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:45 AM
Location: Guangzhou, China
10,153 posts, read 13,988,565 times
Reputation: 11700
General update: Our daughter was pretty good all of today. She did start to act up at one point and started to get weepy and whiny, but I asked her, "do you remember what we did the other day?"
Her: "You put me in my room?"
Me: "Yes."
Her: "I don't want to go back in my room. I will stop." She stopped, stood up, gave me a hug and said, "daddy, I won't be naughty like that again. I don't like being naughty."

She started to get a bit mopey before bedtime and brought up our deceased dog again, but remained composed, and was out by 8.45.
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