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Old 01-30-2021, 01:35 PM
 
1,204 posts, read 523,944 times
Reputation: 5149

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I read the article. Boy does she ramble around. Here's the part where I think she completely misses the ball:

It didn't have any noticeable effect. What struck me at the time was that she was surprised. You mean she doesn't know the kind of things they say to one another? You mean this isn't normal?

It's important to realize that, no, the adults don't know what the kids are doing to one another. They know, in the abstract, that kids are monstrously cruel to one another, just as we know in the abstract that people get tortured in poorer countries. But, like us, they don't like to dwell on this depressing fact, and they don't see evidence of specific abuses unless they go looking for it.


I disagree with that. My experience and that of my kids is the teachers and administration DO know. They know the popular kids. They know the nerds. And the jocks. And the cheerleaders. And they know which cliques are in and out and who is being bullied or pushed aside. They know. And what's worse, they tacitly support it. Most teachers come from the middle of that pear she talked about. Because they've spent their entire lives in that school environment, they don't have a "real world" experience to break the chain. My observation is the best teachers, the ones who don't still play the popularity game she describes are the ones who come from outside -- prior military, former scientists, engineers, business people.

Oh my yes, so much truth here. Not in every school, but it's definitely out there.

I worked in schools for 20 years, as support staff. More than once I stuck my nose into situations where teachers were blatantly ignoring bullying going on sometimes literally right in front of them. (I wouldn't rush in, but talk to the teacher afterwards. And in high school, sometimes the victim by letting them know I saw that and that it wasn't right).

Some adults in schools are the worst. They never left their own high school crap behind and either ignore bullying right in front of them, or even encourage it. My daughter had one teacher in high school that the kids who were smart and going places avoided like the plague, because she tried to be a "cool kid" with the bullies. In her 30s! For the record - the popular kids laughed at her behind her back.

I feel for the adults who do try. During one horrible situation I knew of, I had a respected teacher come to me, telling me she knew exactly what was going on, but was powerless to do anything because the administration wouldn't allow her to do anything. She left the school the next semester, and when I talked to her a year later she was much happier at a much happier school.
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Old 01-30-2021, 03:32 PM
 
23,285 posts, read 13,361,613 times
Reputation: 24223
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I read the article. Boy does she ramble around. Here's the part where I think she completely misses the ball:

It didn't have any noticeable effect. What struck me at the time was that she was surprised. You mean she doesn't know the kind of things they say to one another? You mean this isn't normal?

It's important to realize that, no, the adults don't know what the kids are doing to one another. They know, in the abstract, that kids are monstrously cruel to one another, just as we know in the abstract that people get tortured in poorer countries. But, like us, they don't like to dwell on this depressing fact, and they don't see evidence of specific abuses unless they go looking for it.


I disagree with that. My experience and that of my kids is the teachers and administration DO know. They know the popular kids. They know the nerds. And the jocks. And the cheerleaders. And they know which cliques are in and out and who is being bullied or pushed aside. They know. And what's worse, they tacitly support it. Most teachers come from the middle of that pear she talked about. Because they've spent their entire lives in that school environment, they don't have a "real world" experience to break the chain. My observation is the best teachers, the ones who don't still play the popularity game she describes are the ones who come from outside -- prior military, former scientists, engineers, business people.
I would agree with you. I think they do know. There has been a sea change in that respect between the 60s when I was in high school, the 90s when my daughter was in high school, and now as my grandchildren are in high school.

For sure, even back in the 60s we had our nerds (bookworms), cheerleaders, jocks, popular kids. But the extremes of abusive behavior were not there. I was a nerd, but nerds were given their space and their own level of respect. Not popularity, but acknowledgement of a valid space in the system.

My daughter commonly saw jocks performing mock gang rapes in the halls of weaker boys...and teachers merely turned away. She (also a nerd) was subject to a level of sexual harassment that wouldn't have been acceptable even in the military...and school officials merely spread their hands and claimed there was nothing they could do.
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Old 01-30-2021, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Sandy Eggo's North County
2,540 posts, read 833,779 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
the joy does recede when they call you from jail or the rehab center.
All too very true...
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Old 01-31-2021, 05:19 AM
 
Location: NJ
15,443 posts, read 24,395,320 times
Reputation: 15157
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown00 View Post
I have young ones, baby + toddler. If I'm having a bad day, just spending some time with them really helps. They are so happy, so carefree, so stress less. They just enjoy life and just want to be with you. Play play play

Does this feeling ever stop? I would guess by the time kids are teenagers this immediate uplift of joy they provide is gone? lol...
Kids learn what they see. If you treat them well, they'll treat you well too. They'll also pick up on how you treat people like your parents. If you're respectful to your parents, they'll see that. Another thing is cursing. Lots of young parents these days curse around their kids. They'll pick it up too, not saying the actual word but eff word you or something similar. It could turn into them spelling the curse word or them giving the finger but they'll use a different finger, of course it's to see what they can get away with. At some point punishment won't matter to them; so raise them right, no cursing and don't let them see you argue with anyone.

Unfortunately I have experience with this. I won't go into detail.
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:20 PM
 
2,849 posts, read 515,073 times
Reputation: 1669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Homeschooling does not require having no social contacts.
My grandchildren are homeschooled and they both have a active social life.
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