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I have to agree here. While no one will likely question it and the liability issue is unlikely to arise due to an accident, you're teaching them that people don't have to follow the rules if they're inconvenient.
When my son was in college, he was using my address as his legal address for his driver's license, etc. He was in school in the same state where I lived. After he graduated, he went to grad school in a neighboring state. We only have mail-in ballots here in WA - there are no polling places at all, it's all done by mail and ballot drop boxes.
I called and told him that the ballot came, but that it would be a felony for me to fill it out and sign his name, so I was shredding it, and to make sure he registered to vote in the new state.
I could have just destroyed the ballot and not even mentioned that it came, but I wanted to point out to him that just because you CAN get away with something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Of course, risking a felony is much more dire than pretending to be a parent, but the point is the same.
Setting a bad example is not the way this is going down.
On Saturday morning, I'm not saying:
"Hey kids, we have to lie to get on the zipline, here's what we're gonna do...."
We simply show up, I hand the form to the person I need to hand it to, and on the form my relation to the kids is marked "father."
And I say: "Good morning sir or madame, I'm here to sign the kids up for the zipline. Here's the paperwork."
The kids aren't paying attention to what the form says or what I'm writing on it.
Last edited by Reggie White; 10-21-2021 at 12:09 PM..
I have to agree here. While no one will likely question it and the liability issue is unlikely to arise due to an accident, you're teaching them that people don't have to follow the rules if they're inconvenient.
When my son was in college, he was using my address as his legal address for his driver's license, etc. He was in school in the same state where I lived. After he graduated, he went to grad school in a neighboring state. We only have mail-in ballots here in WA - there are no polling places at all, it's all done by mail and ballot drop boxes.
I called and told him that the ballot came, but that it would be a felony for me to fill it out and sign his name, or to give it to him to fill out, since he was no longer a resident, so I was shredding it, and to make sure he registered to vote in the new state.
I could have just destroyed the ballot and not even mentioned that it came, but I wanted to point out to him that just because you CAN get away with something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Of course, risking a felony is much more dire than pretending to be a parent, but the point is the same.
Actually he probably could have voted in WA and kept your place as his legal address. I know because I got an absentee ballot while in college for my home state. He also could have voted in the state he was at school in. I did that one year as well. You just can't do both.
Setting a bad example is not the way this is going down.
On Saturday morning, I'm not saying:
"Hey kids, we have to lie to get on the zipline, here's what we're gonna do...."
We simply show up, I hand the form to the person I need to hand it to, and on the form my relation to the kids is marked "father."
And I say: "Good morning sir or madame, I'm here to sign the kids up for the zipline. Here's the paperwork."
The kids aren't paying attention to what the form says or what I'm writing on it.
And you think its going to go down the way you imagine it because?????
You have done this several times before and that is how it always goes down?
The kids dont have any reason to speak to you or call you over for anything, so no slip ups there?
No one at either the school or at the zoo would ever have the nerve to ask for your ID?
The parents are so excited for the kids to do this that you are totally confident that if the kids sustained a reasonably serious injury there would be no hard feelings from their mother or their father toward you? They would consider this a great big favor you just did them, even with the injuries?
If the parents are ok with it, then no problem do it. If the parents are a no go, then it is a hard no.
If my sister left her kids with me, she knows we are going to do fun stuff so shooting guns, go carts, zip lines, roller coasters are all on the table!
I didn’t read all the responses but I would get their mom or dad to email or text me that I had permission to take the kids on the zip line or any other ride and acknowledge that I am going to sign a waiver. Then keep the email or text as evidence if there were any future problems.
They dont. Its just to cover their A.
I signed all documents for my grand from 2014-2019. His parents left him with me and I could not get legal guardianship. There were only two times my signature/legal statute was questioned. One was getting his drivers permit and one for oral surgery.
Totally agree, they really don't care, won't question it by asking for their birth certificates and his ID. They're just covering their a$$ like you say.
I call BS to people who say "I'd NEVER do that!" RIGHT...
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton
They don't know and they don't care. If their parents okayed it, I would sign it as well.
Totally agree, their parents are fine with it, that is the main thing. He is not going against the parents here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie White
Well the info I read on the website. Its not just about signing the form it says being present on site. And in any case they are going to the funeral of one of their oldest friends from childhood who died of cancer. So I'm not going to trouble them over something like this. I got their permission for the zip line itself when they dropped the kids off last night.
You may be right that no one has asked because nothing happened, and if something happens, someone will ask.
That goes back to part of my query where I mentioned:
"If anyone asks, I'm their dad."
I did consider the possibility of them getting hurt, thus the waiver.
But then I got to thinking: its not like this is an adult zipline course in some developing country, its a child's course at the metro zoo. That a hundred kids go on every day.
With all the safety features and supervision they must have for something like that, I think they have a better chance of getting injured in a car crash on the way over there, than they do on the zipline itself.
So thus I'm asking, is there any realistic way anyone would know, and are there any consequences for that?
In other words, I give the ticket taker back the form saying theyre my kids, and the ticket taker somehow smells a rat, and concludes I'm some other relative, and not their legal guardian.
How does this happen, and what happens next?
I have the perfect solution for those saying don't do it. Contact your brother, tell him to load the website, go to Staples to print the form out. He can then sign it, take a photo of it to text you. You can print it out to bring with you or have it as a backup if something does happen.
There are also other ways. He can also have staples scan it into a PDF that he can put in his google docs for you to grab and print out to take with you.
Good thing we live in the technology times and not in the 80's any more.
I'm watching my 12 year old niece and nephew (twins) through Sunday while my brother and his wife are out of town for a funeral.
They were dropped off at my place last night.
I'm taking them to the zoo on saturday(they've been fully vaccinated) and there is a junior zip line course that their parents said they could do, and they are very excited about it.
The problem is my dumb self didn't read the fine print until just now, and I see that the parents or legal (court appointed) guardians have to sign a waiver and actually be on site for a child to participate in the zip line.
Well I have never been the kind of guy to break his promises, especially when made to a child. So this got me thinking, would anyone really know?
After all, at the age of 31, I'm old enough to be their parent, I'm 19 years older than them. And when I've taken them for activities in the past, I've naturally been mistaken for being their parent on multiple occasions.
So what if I just fill out the forms myself, listing them as my son and daughter?
Then I give it to the zoo employees.
How do they know I'm not their dad?
I wouldn't 'forge' the parents' signatures no matter what.
Get them on the phone and have them talk to someone in charge, give permission for you to sign for them and then proceed.
Setting a bad example is not the way this is going down.
On Saturday morning, I'm not saying:
"Hey kids, we have to lie to get on the zipline, here's what we're gonna do...."
We simply show up, I hand the form to the person I need to hand it to, and on the form my relation to the kids is marked "father."
And I say: "Good morning sir or madame, I'm here to sign the kids up for the zipline. Here's the paperwork."
The kids aren't paying attention to what the form says or what I'm writing on it.
Welcome to City-Data Reggie!
I think people have their real life way they act and their online persona for what they do and say for message boards and social media. I know people that are totally different than what they actually post on Facebook, so I'd be surprised if it didn't apply to people here.
I don't believe that almost everyone wouldn't do the same for a similar reason to what you said in another reply, this is a kids zip line, not an adult one. I'll be surprised if it's as high or as dangerous as an adult version.
Let's be real here, they don't do it the way they actually should where you would need to bring their legal, stamped birth certificate, the one needed to get a real ID in the US that also shows both parents names. Then they would want your photo ID but not any photo ID, you're US real ID where you had to show legal documents in order to get one.
In addition, yes, they would most certainly want identification for the kids which a lot of kids these days have from the school they go to that the school verified who the kids actually were, they would also have a current photo of the kid on it.
We can all assume that they are not requiring any of those things in order to qualify going on the kids zip line.
As I said in my other reply, we're not in the 80's any more. There are ways for your sibling to get the waiver printed so they can sign it to text it to you to bring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S
JUST DO IT!
If the parents are ok with it, then no problem do it. If the parents are a no go, then it is a hard no.
If my sister left her kids with me, she knows we are going to do fun stuff so shooting guns, go carts, zip lines, roller coasters are all on the table!
I've been here 13 years, am still amazed how people focus on one thing, then most of the thread is followed by that one thing. In thirty something replies, I think 2 or 3 people offered a solution for Reggie to have his sibling email something to say he had permission to take the kids on the ride which would at least cover Reggie's butt if something did happened; so that the kids parents couldn't straight up sue Reggie.
In my opinion, having them actually sign it, then text it to Reggie would be the best. They could have actually mailed it back to Reggie already had they done that when the thread was first started.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsuperfly
They couldn't sue anyone anyway....that's the purpose of the waiver.
The waiver would not hold up in court if the parents did sign it. There's a thread called Child dies on thrill ride in the current events section. A 6 year old girl died on a haunted mine drop thrill ride at an amusement park called Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park in CO. They have a waiver on their web site that a parent needs to sign, that absolves them of any accident causing injury or death on one of their rides.
Turns out, in this case, the employee didn't belt her in. He physically tested the belt too, which the girl was holding onto. We don't know if she had been on the ride before or not, they didn't live far from the park. I wondered if she purposely didn't say anything about the belt.
My grandson is 8, for the last few years he's been playing seat belt games with me. I expect him to belt up when we get in the car, I'll start pulling out, asking if he's belted. He says, well, it's giving me issues, telling me it's stuck or jammed some way. I have to stop the car, I see that there is no issue, it's really him not wanting to wear his seat belt while driving to my house a mile or so away. In his 8 year old mind, we drive down one street, turn, drive on the 2nd street, turn again, short drive before making a left, then another short drive, right turn onto my street. Like why would he need a seat belt on such a short drive? I guess he forgets that he and my daughter were in a bad wreck at that first turn. Someone ran a stop sign, her friends SUV was totaled. They were on a short drive that day too when they all almost got killed. Thankfully grandson a friends kid were in car seats still.
One of my first questions about this little girl besides wondering if she'd even been on it before, was who was on the ride with her? There is no way in hell that an adult would not belt my kid or my grand kids on for a dangerous ride like this.
Even if the employee did belt passengers in, there were articles where attorneys gave their opinion, the waiver wouldn't hold up in court, the one that Reggie is signing wouldn't hold up in court either but there may be a case against Reggie for whether he legally had the right to sign the waiver for his niece and nephew. That is why I would want my sibling to get the waiver printed, then at least text it to me; having staples scan into a PDF is what I'd also want, so that my sibling could at least email me the PDF, even though they texted the signed waiver to me.
Below is one reply in the thrill ride accident that links to the article saying how she died if anyone is interested. If you want to check out the thread, you can hit the arrow next to Suburban_Guy's name in the quote below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy
Yeah, I just don't get this at all. How can anyone NOT notice that someone doesn't have their seat belts on. None of the family members (or whoever was sitting next to her) and especially the staff? Some were thinking that she slipped out of the belt or it was somehow not sufficient. And now we find out she wasn't even belted at all in the first place! This is not 'error,' it's gross negligence and criminal in my opinion.
“The fatal accident was the result of multiple operator errors, specifically failure to ensure proper utilization of the passenger restraint system (seatbelts), and a lack of understanding and resolution of the Human Machine Interface (HMI) screen error conditions on the control panel,” the report concludes.
The report found that a lack of procedures, inadequate training, more than one operator taking responsibility for a ride during a ride cycle and the restraint system involved all contributed to the operator error.
In the ride immediately preceding the accident, the seat Estifanos occupied was left empty. Ride operators, who were not named in the report, fastened the two seat belts of the empty seat, one of which uses a rod that is pushed into a buckle called the restraint block, which is used for monitoring of seat belt status.
At the conclusion of each ride, the rod automatically unlocks as operators are intended to unfasten patrons from their belts, resetting the ride’s status. If the rod is not removed and reinserted, an error is thrown on the control panel, as it “cannot have been positioned properly on the next passenger,” according to the report.
Operators had adopted a process of unbuckling and clearing seat belts from seats, the report finds, but had done so inconsistently throughout the day and did not reset the unoccupied seat before Estifanos took it.
In both the manufacturer’s and the site-specific operations’ manuals, operators are instructed to fasten patrons into the seats. The operator was observed allowing guests to fasten their own seat belts throughout the day, the report found. The manuals also instruct operators to visually confirm each guest has seat belts over their lap.
Estifanos was observed having the tail end of the seat belt in her lap, but neither of the actual restraints were in place on her.
A second operator arrived while the restraint block error was active. Operator 2 then reinserted each rod into their buckle, “without understanding and resolving the actual issue — that Ms. Estifanos did not have the seatbelts across her lap.” The report notes that the manufacturer’s operating manual does not instruct operators how to properly address errors.
I have a question, if one of them should break a bone, not on the zip line but just riding their bike, while you have them are you authorized to have it treated? Many ERs won't treat until they affirmative permission from a parent.
All that takes is a phone call.
My grand got hurt at an away ball tournament I was unable to attend. One of the attending parents took him to the ER. They call me for a verbal approval to treat him. I was not a LEGAL guardian but they didnt know that.
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