Temper Tantrums - toddler (minors, punish, babies, parents)

[reneeh63]

I think you are borrowing trouble.

Your 3 WEEK old is NOT trying to manipulate you - she is communicating in the only way she knows how. It's up to you to figure out what she needs from you - difficult, I'm sure until you learn more of her habits.

Once she is a little older she will need to learn how to calm and quiet herself - that is a bit different and you may need to allow her to cry a bit to have that chance to calm herself.

But I think by concentrating on what things will be like when she is ACTUALLY throwing tantrums in a year or two is wrongly impacting your actions now. Don't let that happen - she NEEDS your attention.

[thinkingandwondering]

Dear OP:

Please educate yourself on child development. A three week old baby is not trying to "manipulate" you, and that you think she is is unhealthy.

You cannot spoil a baby. They need human contact and comforting.

[E-Twist]

She may never throw a tantrum. Not all children do.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by MrDee12345

My wife and I just had a baby! Yay us! She's a little over three weeks old and she's lovely.

Even though she's still an infant, my wife and I are already trying to understand the ways she tries to manipulate us. We're getting better at understanding her "I want food" cry from her "Just give me your attention" cry. I think.

But I imagine myself in a few years in the following scenario:

We're at the supermarket and "Little Dee" wants something. I say, "No." Next thing you know she throws a tantrum so wild you'd think I was cutting off one of her legs.

I'm certainly not going to be one of those fathers who says "Well, since you're making a scene, I'll just give you what you want." Not happening.

But I have read of two conflicting ways in which to deal with toddler tantrums.

1. Basically ignore it. Either walk away and let her run after me cuz she's scared to be alone OR just put her in the carriage and let her cry it out while mostly ignoring her.

2. Deal with the tantrum right there and tell her that this is unacceptable. If she continues, take her out of the supermarket and back home and she'll have to deal with punishment when she gets home. (I know for some of you the thought of leaving the supermarket and driving home would be quite challenging so it might not be an option cuz you still need your food, but I live in a condo that's located above a mall and supermarket, so I could leave, give her to my wife and be back shopping in ten minutes.)

Which have you tried? Do you have any other techniques that ensure she gets the message that this sort of behavior is not acceptable?

OP, forgive me if I don't understand. You say she's three weeks old. You correctly call her an "infant". Then later you call her a "toddler". "Infant" and "toddler" are not the same thing. A three-week old can't possibly be a toddler.

I'm also wondering how she indicates to you that she wants something, at three weeks old. What does that look like? At 3 weeks old, how can you differentiate between a "tantrum" and a helpless infant becoming frustrated, because she's hungry (or wet), and no one has attended to her needs the entire time they're in the store? She doesn't know what a store is. All she knows is, that something's wrong, and no one's doing anything about it, unlike at home, when people usually respond fairly promptly. So naturally, she raises the ante, she gets louder, when no one responds. This is what newborns do.

Also, vocalizing is not "manipulation". At 3 weeks, or 3 months, it's communication. Vocalizing and eventually--crying, is the only way she has of communicating. Why do you view it as "manipulation"? That's a very negative characterization. It doesn't sound like a good start to your relationship with her. She's not even a month old, for heaven's sake, let alone--a year old. She's completely and utterly dependent on you two.

if I've misread the situation, please correct me. I couldn't tell at first, if you were talking about two different children: a 3-week-old, and an older sibling who's a toddler. Any clarification would be appreciated. I need to get a clear picture of the situation, before I can offer any advice.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by MrDee12345

That's actually great advice. Thanks.

You're probably right about going home, too. Our daughter is going to have to learn that she can't always be doing exactly what she wants all the time. I figure taking her outside the store (not the car since I don't even need to drive to the store) and waiting for her to calm down might be the best approach.

We give her the attention when she needs it, but we can't always give it when she wants it. My daughter will always be loved, fed and clean, but I see far too many kids who rely on their parents FAR too late in life. I want her to grow up to be strong and independent, not living with me when she's 31.

And I get it, it's painful. I know there will be times where I will have to sit back and watch her deal with challenging situations and hope that we taught her well enough to deal with the situation on her own. She will always be able to count on her mother and father to have her back, but part of raising children is teaching them to deal, and live with, the consequences of their actions. My wife and I agreed when we decided to have a child that our goal was to raise an adult, not a big child.

OP, she's a newborn. You're getting way ahead of yourself, here. There will be time to build her independence after she gets past the eating/sleeping/wetting stage. Right now, you need to build TRUST with her. She needs to know she can rely on her parents to meet her needs as a helpless infant. That trust you build in her first few years of life will stand you in good stead when those teen years hit. It's like money in the bank; a deposit you keep making daily in these earliest years.

Don't fall into that old Victorian-era trap (and its aftermath through the 50's), of believing "children should be seen and not heard", and that infants should conform to adult mealtime schedules, and all the rest of it. All that does in many instances, is raise kids who are estranged from their parents. Kids who know their parents won't be there for them, when the chips are down. But you're right, that there are limitations to parents' ability to come running at every instance. Once you get through the first year, things should start to smooth out. In the meantime, it's an exercise in patience and love.

[Hearthcrafter]

I agree with others that you are getting way ahead of yourself, the best method is to be proactive, not reactive.

1. Tend to their needs first, by making sure they are fed and rested before going to the store (I liked to go right after breakfast). Hangry children, like hangry adults, are not cooperative.

2. Keep the time in the store short (20 minutes max for a toddler), and save longer trips for when some people else is available to take care of her. Just enough time to introduce “shopping manners”, but no so long that they get bored or overstimulated.

3. Bring something to keep them occupied, like a doll in a stroller or a child-size shopping basket. My kids were all very good at staying with me, or a pop-up book if they are sitting in the shopping carriage.

[ALA2009]

I feel the best way to handle tantrums is to set your child up to succeed. I put my now 12 yr old in baby sign language—-just simple signs like more or want or please can be a big help. That way your child can tell you what they want. Also, whenever possible, before going out, make sure they are rested, have a clean diaper, have a snack/drink available. Kids are more likely to have meltdowns when tired, hungry, etc. Finally, just be ok with leaving the situation. No need to let them scream in public, but take them home or at least a private place. My nephew would bang his head on the floor when angry. My mom, who watched him frequently, would just make sure nothing was on the floor to hurt him & let him be. He’d stop when he realized no one was watching. Comfort them when they’re done. Emotions are hard to handle when you are little.

[rrah]

First, three week old babies don't try to manipulate.

I find your use of that word worrisome. That and other parts of post indicate to me that you seem to expect the worst from your child. I also dislike the word punishment. I preferred to discipline my children. Punishment implies making a child suffer in some way. Discipline involves teaching a child about better choices and behavior.

I'm also chuckling to myself because you innocently seem to think you can prepare for every eventual tantrum or misbehavior. There are different reasons a child acts out and those reasons should influence your response. Sometimes a child acts out because they are tired or hungry or overstimulated. Punishment doesn't help. Scaring a child by walking away certainly wouldn't help. You'll find out that the best laid out parenting plans don't always fit the situation.

[kudzutoo]

I applaud you for seeking answers to your questions.

A "toddler" is a child who is beginning to walk...which is around a year old.


You have an "infant"...who is completely dependent on her parents to make sure she is safe, fed, loved, cared for. An infant does not "manipulate" any one...she is letting you know she is uncomfortable because she is hungry, wet, bloated, hot/cold, scared, etc. She is learning that if she has a need, someone will help her, which will help her to be less anxiety-ridden than a child who doesn't know what to expect moment to moment.



When she is a "toddler", she may have tatrums...often toddler tantrums are because toddlers understand more of language than they can express. Imagine if you were proficient in understanding a foreign language, but couldn't SPEAK it. How frustrating would that be? (Side note - I like one poster's suggestion of teaching some baby sign language later...really can help older babies and toddlers to sign "more", "water", "milk", etc. and be able to express themselves).


Here is a key thing to remember as a parent...children think differently than adults. You've got to remember that. They are new and everything is new to them. That doesn't mean you try to rationalize with a four year old, or ignore bad behavior in a non-infant. It means stop and ask what might be happening in light of where the child is age- and development-wise, and then address things accordingly.

Search online for "authoritarian parenting", "permission parenting" and "authoritative parenting". I think those three parenting styles will give you and your wife something to ponder further down the road...maybe about your own parents raised you and what worked or not, what you think a parent's role is, etc.

I don't agree with all of his principles (which is OK...child development theories are just that...theories - you can agree or disagree with them), but, search online also for info on William Sears and "attachment parenting". It might give you a new perspective on how parents should nurture children.



Ask your pediatrician for info on developmental milestones...what is normal to expect, and what children do at different ages. Go to cdc.gov and search for "milestones"...there are great resources about what is a normal progression of growth and expectations for different ages. Ask our pediatrician about new parent groups. Chat with other parents at stores or places like storytime at your local library.



Blessings to you, your wife and baby. Enjoy being a parent. Take time to learn about your new "job", and enjoy becoming the best dad you can be!

[paperwing]

Originally Posted by MrDee12345

My wife and I just had a baby! Yay us! She's a little over three weeks old and she's lovely.

Even though she's still an infant, my wife and I are already trying to understand the ways she tries to manipulate us. We're getting better at understanding her "I want food" cry from her "Just give me your attention" cry. I think.

But I imagine myself in a few years in the following scenario:

We're at the supermarket and "Little Dee" wants something. I say, "No." Next thing you know she throws a tantrum so wild you'd think I was cutting off one of her legs.

I'm certainly not going to be one of those fathers who says "Well, since you're making a scene, I'll just give you what you want." Not happening.

But I have read of two conflicting ways in which to deal with toddler tantrums.

1. Basically ignore it. Either walk away and let her run after me cuz she's scared to be alone OR just put her in the carriage and let her cry it out while mostly ignoring her.

2. Deal with the tantrum right there and tell her that this is unacceptable. If she continues, take her out of the supermarket and back home and she'll have to deal with punishment when she gets home. (I know for some of you the thought of leaving the supermarket and driving home would be quite challenging so it might not be an option cuz you still need your food, but I live in a condo that's located above a mall and supermarket, so I could leave, give her to my wife and be back shopping in ten minutes.)

Which have you tried? Do you have any other techniques that ensure she gets the message that this sort of behavior is not acceptable?

My eldest had one tantrum. In public, in a grocery store. It was not fun, but it needed to be ignored. Any response from me would reinforce the behaviour (whether I spank ECd her - I woiuld not - or soothe her. She’d learn tantrums get attention.

I ignored her (that doesn’t mean I left her flailing). - I ignored her beha I or, scooped her up, took her home.

That was her one and only tantrum.

That said, she did teach me how stupid other negative conditioning is - I put her in “time out” for something… she chose to go in the broom closet, in her her footed Jammies - after a minute or so, I went to get her, and she’d taken off her footie Jammie’s and put them back on - inside out. The point of time out was to deprive her of doing anything. She won. Over 30 now - I love her so much. What a pistol.

Check with your pediatrician first. I had two kids, and slept well. The one tantrum. Have rules and *never* slack off from them. Have rigid bedtime, meal, nap, bath rules, times and rituals. Youngest infants can be unpredictable, but try to maintain your schedule no matter what anyway.

Structure, consistency, love and limits are your friends. Redirect. Don’t punish.

Food too. Don’t offer choices from day one. Good luck.