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In my house as a kid the normal corporal punishment was a whacking with a wooden spoon on the bare backside. I certainly didn't like it but never thought it was unreasonable, and don't think it's unreasonable now. If it's not unpleasant, it's not punishment!
Reasonable discipline is when a child learns what he did wrong and is punished in a way that doesn't hurt him and fits the crime. As a child, my dad's goal when he spanked me was to make sure that I couldn't sit down for a week. I often had red marks from my thighs to my ankles. He never told me what I did wrong or what I should have done. My behavior didn't improve because I usually didn't know what I had done. The spankings were random and didn't usually coincide with me doing something wrong.
In contrast, my children are put in time out ( a minute times their age). When time out is over, we discuss what was done wrong and what could have been done instead. He/she then has to say "sorry" and give a hug to who he/she hurt. At ages 4 and 6, they behave well most of the time and are never beaten.
One more thought: I remember my dad hurling a belt at me while screaming, "Don't hit people!" Even as a child, I remember thinking, "Then why are you hitting me?" Spanking confuses children and, when it's done wrong like in my case, it scars children physically and emotionally.
During my law enforcement years, we dealt with this issue all the time. By age appropriate spanking to the buttocks (the CA penal code definition of "exception to abuse") is further defined by case law as that which does not cause traumatic injury. So redness or swelling would not be considered trauma, where broken blood vessels or serious bruising would. And by being age appropriate...if we saw a person using a belt on a 2 year old (yes, it happened), and just letting loose, that was an abuse case. But if an incorrigible 17 yo gang member got backhanded by Dad and really got worked over as he was fighting back, that's not abuse. That's a parents ATTEMPT to administer corporal punishment in the face of extreme combative resistance. You want to take on your dad, you're going to take some lumps.
But I think I can safely advise people that as long as you're not causing traumatic injury, and the marks are limited to redness or mild swelling, the actual tool you use is less germane. My mother started with a balsa wood paint stir stick and graduated to using her sandal (it was more often present I guess) when my brothers and I smarted off to her. My dad was a belt man. He'd sit us down first and explain what he was going to do, and he explain that we pushed him to this by our poor choice in our actions but that next time we had the ability to avoid a spanking by altering our actions through prudent forethought. And we took it without complaint 'cause we had it coming...y'all know what I mean...
as a child I got the wooden spoon, or sent to bed ; it was bed, not my room for the afternoon.
As a parent, I admit I have spanked my boys ; on the heiny. These days as they are older ; 8 & 9, they get a few days without TV or the silent treatment.
But they respect us and they also respect all adults.
coining/coin rubbing
(Also referred to as \"Cao Gio\" - Vietnamese term. \"Cheut Sah\" or \"Quat Sha\" - Chinese term). A form of folk healing commonly practiced among some Asian populations, which involves rubbing the body with a coin or spoon. The coin/spoon is sometimes heated or oiled. The rubbing produces red welts on the skin, superficial echymosis, and non-painful areas with petechiae. These areas should not be mistaken for signs of abuse or signs of a specific disease process. The treatment is applied to the symptomatic area. The belief is that rubbing the coin against the skin draws illness out of the body of the individual and that the red welts will appear only on those individuals who are ill. Coining is done to treat illnesses such as colds, vomiting, headache, pain, heat exhaustion, and seizures. The practice is more common among Vietnamese, Chinese, Hmong, Cambodians, and Laotians.
Perhaps someone 'overheated' the coin, if welts/burns resulted.
I guess I don't have an opinion, one way or the other, this coin rubbing thing just intrigued me though. Apparently, it's not for discipline, and is, instead, considered 'folk medicine'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterscorpion
Ok, so would you say that it was abuse because of the "overheating" of the coins? Would you feel under those conditions that it warranted police intervention?
So if this is a cultural practice, should we assume that it is not abuse?
In your opinion, does culture play a major or minor role in how children are disciplined here in San Antonio?
Would it be safe to say that one culture's views of child abuse vary from another? That being the case, should the person doling out the discipline in accordance with thier cultural beliefs be held accountable under Texas law?
My reasons for asking are quite simple. I have seen many times where the primary caregiver used the "Cultural Up-Bringing" as a means of expalining away serious injuries inflicted on the child or children in thier care. So this is why I ask the question.
Thanks
Winter
like I said, I have no opinion about the coining... I was merely sharing information I had found about it.
To answer the question: My definition of what reasonable discipline is, is: Reasonable discipline is the disciplinary steps required by a parent to effectively correct or change the current behavior of a child to a desired behavior. The discipline can (should?) change in tactic, and escalate accordingly, until the child changes to the desired/corrected behavior.
Example: A child is reaching for a container on a shelf. Assumption 1: child is old enough to understand simple commands "yes", "no", "don't", etc. Assumption 2: Child is not in any imminent danger.
1. Parent says "no".
2. Parent reiterates in a more stern tone "no."
3. Parent yells "NO!"
4. Parent moves towards the child with hand raised (signifying a swat to come."
5. Parent says "NO!" and swatch the child on the bottom.
After time, through condition-response, the child should start to understand that if he/she continues the current behavior after an initial "no," that a swat could be short to follow if the behavior isn't changed.
I was spanked and I do occasionally spank my children. Hitting a child out of anger is not okay - but if the child understands - "if you stand on that chair again I am going to spank your butt" I don't feel it crosses any lines. Having said that - every family is different and every child is different. My children don't get spanked very often because they know that I will - so they don't test. If I count and I get to two - it's a punishment - if I get to three - all holy hell is gonna break loose!
Most of the time I send the kids to bed an hour early - they hate that!
As far as cultural practices - people who choose to be citizens/residents of the US must follow the laws. The laws are there for a reason.
Mom used to use a wooden spoon when we were young. It hurt too, probably much like a belt, but it was infrequent and never harmed us. She escalated to removing the TV from the house (she didn't care to watch it so it would sit in the garage, sometimes for weeks).
Still, I hate the idea of hitting and physically hurting my sweet baby (even if she grows up into a little bratty monster). I prefer to take something away or, when my baby gets older, give her a time out or punishment in some boring room with no TV (not her room full of toys).
I'll personally never use an object to spank my kids (they're babies right now) but I can see a swat on the hand to stop them from grabbing/touching things they shouldn't, and later spanking on the butt as long as it doesn't leave a mark, welt, etc. I was spanked in that manner as a child up to the point my parents could reason with me, and I see no problem with it. I see so many parents today who seem afraid to even touch their children, such as taking them by the arm and physically moving them out of a situation, etc. I'm sorry, but you can't reason with a 2 year old.
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Ok, Im not saying this is right or wrong, but I've been privy to supervised spankings in which we as police officers sat there because the otherwise fearful parent was apprehensive to use corporal punishment. By that I mean that the child had repeatedly called the police because he was led to believe that physical discipline was against the law. When we showed up and showed the parent the Family code detailing his rights and priviledges as a parent, he tore that teenager up.
His child was a gang banger, habitually in and out of trouble and got off to victimizing innocent kids or those weaker than him. Were we wrong? Only God can say, but the Parent was extremely appreciative and Jr. Learned a valuable lesson that day. Not all discipline constitutes abuse. I can only hope that his child made the conscious effort to change as we voluntarily stated that each time he acted like a misfit or burden to society we'd be there to assist.
Whats your take on parents calling the police to help assist in the discipline process? Was I right or wrong in helping this fella out? Do you think that I should have been disciplined or fired for my actions if not worse? I really want to know.
Winter
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