What makes a bully? (legal, parent, boy, son)

[arod0331]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

People have been studying that for years, Nuala. I'm taking an upper level class now (Criminological Theory), and we are looking at things like what makes a criminal? Do they start at youth? This, of course, brings bullying into it. Some of the most common theories are:

1. They are physically/emotionally abused at home, and act out the same things against other youths to raise their own self-esteem.

2. They don't know how to react to other kids, and are insecure with themselves (being bigger, stronger, heavier, etc.) so they use their insecurities acted out in a bullying way.

3. They can't get attention (positive or negative) at home they desire, so they resort to bullying as a way to get in trouble at school, thereby getting the attention they wanted at home.

Bottom line, as most commonly believed now, it is a way for a child to act upon their own insecurities or lack of self-esteem.

All the above is correct.

Plus I have a theory that the bully can be jealous of another child and thus acts out like a thug.
Or maybe that's how the parents are. Even some adults think they can browbeat and threaten others, and their kids mimic that behavior.

[nuala]

Originally Posted by Softtail_Honey

Okay, now that I have read all the posts I just want to say this. I don't think it is fair to blame the parents for other kids behavior. You don't know what kind of parents they are, perhaps they are doing everything in their power to combat this behavior. When my DS was 14 and a half(he is now 15 and a half)he and his friends did 25 grand damage to a school that is now torn down(which we are still facing a lawsuit for after his probation is up) and we had to go to court and the whole works(he's still on probation). And yeah, one of the judges suggested that we were being unreasonable. SIGH We have tried therapists, we've had Social Services to the house, we've done mediation and mentoring with a police officer in our community, we've done medication, we've taken things away, added MORE privileges, wiped the slate clean for the past garbage. We have gone to the ends of the earth to set this kid straight including calling the local PD WEEKLY to file a missing persons report. You name it we've done it. So, should we be to blame??? Thats just wrong.

Softtail Honey, thank you for sharing - that takes guts. I tended to blame parents, too, until I started reading/hearing more and more about "average" folks whose children go haywire.

When did you first notice the destructive streak in your son? Was he a bully in school?

[Softtail_Honey]

Originally Posted by nuala

Softtail Honey, thank you for sharing - that takes guts. I tended to blame parents, too, until I started reading/hearing more and more about "average" folks whose children go haywire.

When did you first notice the destructive streak in your son? Was he a bully in school?

NP. It fits the topic here sort of so just thought I'd put a "what if" scenario out there

No, never a bully. More like class clown.

As far as when? Well, 1st it was in 2nd grade when he accused of DH of them watching porn..........which IS NOT the case(that was our initial contact with Social Services). Then when he hit adolescence. Its pretty much a blur for the last 2 years ago. It has been one thing after the other. We've had problems though since he was a baby(very high maintenance kid, every age). We have a CHIPS case right now(which WE petitioned the courts for). He is in temporary placement right now and VERY soon he should be moved to a more suitable foster home. Hope it doesn't come off as unloving or uncaring but we've been around the block plenty and know now what we need to do for him AND his little brother and 18 yo sister that have been having to deal with this for too long.

Sorry, ddin't mean to steal this thread. I just was hoping I could get you guys to think about the parents and what they may be doing to try and curb different bad behaviors/choices. And not group all parents as the ones to blame for their children's actions. Carry on!!!!!!!!

[maf763]

Olweus is one of the top researchers on bullying and this article in Education Week summarizes some of his research:
Following are ten myths about bullying that Olweus has identified through his research:

1. THE MYTH: Bullies suffer from insecurity and low self-esteem. They pick on others to make themselves feel more important.
THE RESEARCH: Most bullies have average or above-average self-esteem. They "suffer" from aggressive temperaments, a lack of empathy, and poor parenting.

2. THE MYTH: Bullies are looking for attention. Ignore them and the bullying will stop.
THE RESEARCH: Bullies are looking for control, and they rarely stop if their behavior is ignored. The level of bullying usually increases if the bullying is not addressed by adults.

3. THE MYTH: Boys will be boys.
THE RESEARCH: Bullying is seldom outgrown; it's simply redirected. About 60 percent of boys identified as bullies in middle school commit at least one crime by the time they are 24.

4. THE MYTH: Kids can be cruel about differences.
THE RESEARCH: Physical differences play only a very small role in bullying situations. Most victims are chosen because they are sensitive, anxious, and unable to retaliate.

5. THE MYTH: Victims of bullies need to learn to stand up for themselves and deal with the situation.
THE RESEARCH: Victims of bullies are usually younger or physically weaker than their attackers. They also lack the social skills to develop supportive friendships. They cannot deal with the situation themselves.

6. THE MYTH: Large schools or classes are conducive to bullying.
THE RESEARCH: No correlation has been established between class or school size and bullying. In fact, there is some evidence that bullying may be less prevalent in larger schools where potential victims have increased opportunities for finding supportive friends.

7. THE MYTH: Most bullying occurs off school grounds.
THE RESEARCH: Although some bullying occurs outside of school or on the way to and from school, most occurs on school grounds: in classrooms, in hallways, and on playgrounds.

8. THE MYTH: Bullying affects only a small number of students.
THE RESEARCH: At any given time, about 25 percent of U.S. students are the victims of bullies and about 20 percent are engaged in bullying behavior. The National Association of School Psychologists estimates that 160,000 children stay home from school every day because they are afraid of being bullied.

9. THE MYTH: Teachers know if bullying is a problem in their classes.
THE RESEARCH: Bullying behavior usually takes place out of sight of teachers. Most victims are reluctant to report the bullying for fear of embarrassment or retaliation, and most bullies deny or justify their behavior.

10. THE MYTH: Victims of bullying need to follow the adage "Sticks and stones will break your bones, but names can never hurt you."
THE RESEARCH: Victims of bullying often suffer lifelong problems with low self-esteem. They are prone to depression, suicide, and other mental health problems throughout their lives.

[Rathagos]

Originally Posted by Softtail_Honey

Okay, now that I have read all the posts I just want to say this. I don't think it is fair to blame the parents for other kids behavior. You don't know what kind of parents they are, perhaps they are doing everything in their power to combat this behavior. So, should we be to blame??? Thats just wrong.

Although I can empathize with you on this, where do you believe the blame falls? And I am thoroughly against thinking everything has a blame. There are times things can be traced to a point of failure (improper mechanics/maintenance and a plane falls out of the sky, simple to see). But if that plane just ran into metal fatique and fell out of the sky, that is an accident. A bus tire (that was properly inflated with appropriate tred) blows on a highway and people are fatally injured... that is an accident... not the fault of the bus company. We are a country of finding blame with everyone/everything else but ourselves.

But in this case, your son... the child that you and your SO bore together has been involved in $25k worth of damage... sorry to say, but yeah you are somewhat responsible. If a parent doesn't want 18 years of responsibility, don't have children. I have four children myself (two of which are actually (biologically) mine). My oldest (now in college) was involved in an altercation at school that required the other student to have some medical attention. That's ultimately my responsibility, but not my fault. Need to make sure we understand the difference between responsibility and fault. And trust me, I took full responsibility and paid the medical bills for that other boy. And after I got done with my son (no... I didn't lay a hand on him, he was 14 at the time) he didn't get into another "altercation" all the way through high school.

But, malicious damage is someone's fault. If it's reparable, then the children involved should definitely be the ones involved in repairing it. But who pays for the materials and expertise required? You the parent. Period. If you didn't bring that child into the world, that damage wouldn't have been done by him/her (and the other, of course).

Understand this though, no one is saying (or should say) that you're a bad parent when a child does something wrong (well, I'm sure there will be those that did), but people have to stop blaming others for their own responsibilities. You brought that child into the world, and are therefore responsible for all of his actions until he's considered an adult. There's a difference in being a responsible parent and being a bad parent. Kids are kids, they are going to do what they do. But we have to be responsible for their actions, or we will continue to see the increase (and, oh yes, there is an increase) in adolescent crime in the country because they will learn to always blame someone else (parents, other kids, society, etc.) for their actions.

[old_cold]

There's a difference between blame and responsibilty.

[mom2justynsarah]

In my opinion, a warm, loving, and stable home leads to a happy, self assured child. On the flip side, when a child's home life is unhappy, chaotic, or non stable, then you have the makings of a bully.

OR you just might have a child that succumbs to peer pressure. He/she is trying to fit in. The only way he/she could fit in is by being a bully. But I doubt a bully is truly happy or at peace with themselves.

[Nelly Nomad]

Originally Posted by maf763

Olweus is one of the top researchers on bullying and this article in Education Week summarizes some of his research... <snip>

Thank you so much for providing this information. Instinctually, I've always believed many of the RESEARCH parts (especially 1, 2, 3 and 10), but never knew there was actual research to back it up.

My son was a victim of bullying. He's not small, but he does tend to not "stick up" for himself. He is a Black Belt, so he *could* have physically fought back, but that's not his nature; he's quite the pacifist. Instead, he kept trying to understand *why* Bully was the way he was. Bully's relentlessness was a source of great frustration for my son. We think part of the reason Bully kept after my son was primarily because my son refused to engage with him (myth 2).

Interestingly enough, my son met up with Bully a few years after and Bully admitted, yeah, he might have been kind of a jerk to my son. We think that was his version of an apology. My son accepted. Maybe there's hope for Bully after all. In the meantime, I've bookmarked your link and will be sharing it with my son. I know he'll find it interesting.

[Nelly Nomad]

Oh, I thought about something else, too. I'm wondering if part of bullying in some kids might be a chemical imbalance at work. Maybe that's part of Busted Myth #1, saying the bully lacks empathy.

[FarNorthDallas]

I think it's hard-wired in the kids. Physiological in the brains.