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Old 11-04-2008, 02:40 PM
 
Location: in my mind
2,743 posts, read 14,266,767 times
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Got a question for those who don't approve of this sort of thing:

How do you feel about anti-drug education programs, i.e. D.A.R.E.?
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:54 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 10,487,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_flawless View Post
Got a question for those who don't approve of this sort of thing:

How do you feel about anti-drug education programs, i.e. D.A.R.E.?
Waste of tax payers money. There have been reports that the long term positive effect of DARE is very low. If I had time, I'd find them..so I will take this as word of mouth since I cannot provide real time data at this moment.

DARE has a target age group (early elementary) & then it stops.

What about high school? What about middle school?

Children who live in areas were drug use runs rampant & the cycle for them to use is very likely...DARE does not go back in its cartoony car with its logo & free stickers.

Also, home environment. By the time this child has reached 13...if he/she is around drugs 24/7, the DARE lesson they received in 2nd grade has long lost its impact.

DARE is about as useful as NCLB.
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,694,628 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_flawless View Post
Got a question for those who don't approve of this sort of thing:

How do you feel about anti-drug education programs, i.e. D.A.R.E.?
DARE-ing to keep kids off drugs is kind of apples and canteloupes in relation to the original subject, but...

D.A.R.E. was fairly new when I was in middle school. All it meant to me was a stump speech in assembly once a year and some posters with very obscure superheroes in the hallway pointing at me and telling me drugs aren't cool. Token effort at best and completely ineffective.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 6,909,873 times
Reputation: 2669
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
I think that's needlessly making the kids aware of a problem that their parents have.

For example, let's imagine a classroom where Paley's rule is in effect. The kids can't say "You can't play." They understand that. They play together. Assuming diversity amongst the students, they are exposed to people of different backgrounds. If you can get the kids to play together and be fair, completely ignoring race, religion, ethnicity etc., what benefit could racial sensitivity lessons possibly convey?
I agree that if the kids are playing together and all is well then that is great! But I don't think that it will just be that easy. In the story about Paley's rule, the kids were pretty resistant to it at first, and I think that's where some of these lessons would be relevant. (I also don't think that most kindys are using this rule, but I used it as a way of addressing bullying at a young age that I thought might be acceptable for you)

I think that kids do already pick up these kinds of "problems that their parents have" by kindy and will integrate them into their play and speech, in ways that would be hurtful to other children. For an example in the context of this thread, I know that a lot of people use the word "gay" as an insult without thinking twice about it and that kids pick that up. It doesn't have to be "Billy's gay, don't play with him" or "Billy has 2 moms, don't play with him" - it can just be "That toy is so gay, I'm not playing with it" or "Billy's backpack is yellow - that's so gay" or even "I can't believe you want to play house - what, are you gay?", etc. The implication may have something to do with gender identity/ sexual orientation, or it may just be another word for "stupid", but it certainly connotes the idea that gay=bad. Yah, kids get this from their parents, but that doesn't mean it should be acceptable in school. And in order for that to be clear to the kids, they can have a lesson on it. If it's not a problem in the classroom, I wouldn't say that they NEED to have a lesson on it. I just don't have a problem with having a lesson on it should the teacher choose to do so. I think that kids in kindy do say things like this, and I don't think it is inappropriate to teach them not to.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:18 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,257 posts, read 6,114,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
I think that's needlessly making the kids aware of a problem that their parents have.
NEEDLESSLY?

Give the poor kids something to think about. That not every adult and parents is full of hate and disdain towards those who are different.

There is nothing needless about learning tolerance at an early age.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:20 PM
 
Location: in my mind
2,743 posts, read 14,266,767 times
Reputation: 1627
Thanks for the replies on the D.A.R.E. thing. I was wondering because I do see a connection, although y'all may think it is a stretch. I wonder about families who politically are pro decriminalization of certain drugs. I doubt anyone wants their kids messing with drugs, period... but I prefer to talk to my children about the issue in a rational and realistic manner. I'm not a drug user and I have no fear of my kids "turning me in".. but my point is, as a mom I have my own opinions on drugs and the whole "drug war" and the school programs are not always in line with the values I have shared with my children. It's a political issue, much like abstinence-only sex ed, abortion, and gay rights. I'd actually be happier if they had an alcohol education week.

To me that's the similarity with this Gay Pledge card thing.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,694,628 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
NEEDLESSLY?

Give the poor kids something to think about. That not every adult and parents is full of hate and disdain towards those who are different.

There is nothing needless about learning tolerance at an early age.
You're representing an argument that I'm not making.

Last edited by jeannie216; 11-05-2008 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:30 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,257 posts, read 6,114,469 times
Reputation: 1998
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
More psychosis. You're representing an argument that I'm not making.
I am absolutely referring to your argument that children at a young age do not need to be aware of their parents faults. You obviously have short term memory loss. There are pills for that.


My argument is that I am ok with my kid being aware that it is not ok to call people names whether they are gay or developmentally delayed or fat or ugly. Why are you against your child being sensitive to others?

We don't call people names. And if we need to sign a piece of paper for EACH one of these things than that is OK with me.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,694,628 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
I agree that if the kids are playing together and all is well then that is great! But I don't think that it will just be that easy. In the story about Paley's rule, the kids were pretty resistant to it at first, and I think that's where some of these lessons would be relevant. (I also don't think that most kindys are using this rule, but I used it as a way of addressing bullying at a young age that I thought might be acceptable for you)

I think that kids do already pick up these kinds of "problems that their parents have" by kindy and will integrate them into their play and speech, in ways that would be hurtful to other children. For an example in the context of this thread, I know that a lot of people use the word "gay" as an insult without thinking twice about it and that kids pick that up. It doesn't have to be "Billy's gay, don't play with him" or "Billy has 2 moms, don't play with him" - it can just be "That toy is so gay, I'm not playing with it" or "Billy's backpack is yellow - that's so gay" or even "I can't believe you want to play house - what, are you gay?", etc. The implication may have something to do with gender identity/ sexual orientation, or it may just be another word for "stupid", but it certainly connotes the idea that gay=bad. Yah, kids get this from their parents, but that doesn't mean it should be acceptable in school. And in order for that to be clear to the kids, they can have a lesson on it. If it's not a problem in the classroom, I wouldn't say that they NEED to have a lesson on it. I just don't have a problem with having a lesson on it should the teacher choose to do so. I think that kids in kindy do say things like this, and I don't think it is inappropriate to teach them not to.
You make a good point, but I still think there is little harm in a child that age picking up the word "gay" as a foul adjective. The child isn't making a slur, at least not one that he or she fully understands. The child is just parroting a connotation. I don't think that calls for a different response than if the teacher overheard a child saying "Where are my f*cking shoes?" The association of "gay = bad" is certainly tricky, but I think the kids will be better off the simpler the correction is. To me, it's just too easy to overkill and actually reinforce that there is something insidious and taboo about the way the word was used (making it that much more attractive).
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:45 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 10,487,153 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_flawless View Post

To me that's the similarity with this Gay Pledge card thing.
For "most" children, what do you think has the longest lasting impact: the pledge they signed in kindergarten not to do drugs or name call or seeing their parents live a certain way?

Schools and teachers are being held too socially accountable & then they are being blamed students are dumbed down?

If my child does drugs or uses a hate word, it's MY responsibility & possibly my fault. It's not Mrs. Jones, his 1st grade teachers fault.
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