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Old 11-04-2008, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,663,829 times
Reputation: 7184

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
I am absolutely referring to your argument that children at a young age do not need to be aware of their parents faults. You obviously have short term memory loss. There are pills for that.


My argument is that I am ok with my kid being aware that it is not ok to call people names whether they are gay or developmentally delayed or fat or ugly. Why are you against your child being sensitive to others?

We don't call people names. And if we need to sign a piece of paper for EACH one of these things than that is OK with me.
I concede that I was wrong. This is not psychosis, this is a reading comprehension issue. No pills for that, unfortunately.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:50 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,449,560 times
Reputation: 2641
I'm not really sure why anyone would have a problem with our kids being respectful towards other kids who happen to be gay/lesbian. Using the term "f a g" is a common derogatory slur that punk kids use. I would freak out if I heard any of my children going after another child because that child was different (gay, transgender, or whatever). I don't believe that homosexuals/transgender should just suck it up and take it... kids shouldn't be spewing hateful language towards ANYONE regardless of who it is. This is basic civility and compassion NOT pro-gay. Now if the schools are literally promoting homosexual relationships that seems political to me and unnecessary - that would be going to far. But just creating a hostile free environment for our gay counterparts is not unreasonable at all.

Just my two cents.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,663,829 times
Reputation: 7184
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear2 View Post
I'm not really sure why anyone would have a problem with our kids being respectful towards other kids who happen to be gay/lesbian. Using the term "f a g" is a common derogatory slur that punk kids use. I would freak out if I heard any of my children going after another child because that child was different (gay, transgender, or whatever). I don't believe that homosexuals/transgender should just suck it up and take it... kids shouldn't be spewing hateful language towards ANYONE regardless of who it is. This is basic civility and compassion NOT pro-gay. Now if the schools are literally promoting homosexual relationships that seems political to me and unnecessary - that would be going to far. But just creating a hostile free environment for our gay counterparts is not unreasonable at all.

Just my two cents.
Mommabear,

I agree for the most part. Gemini was wise enough to propose this:

By signing this card, I, ________, am taking a stand for a safe and harrassment-free school for all students.
_________________ __________
(signature) (date)


Easy to explain, easy to enforce and reinforce, objective, no special interest, no agenda.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:59 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 10,477,661 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
Mommabear,

I agree for the most part. Gemini was wise enough to propose this:

By signing this card, I, ________, am taking a stand for a safe and harrassment-free school for all students.
_________________ __________
(signature) (date)


Easy to explain, easy to enforce and reinforce, objective, no special interest, no agenda.
It's pathetic that cards need to be signed to encourage proper treatment of each other.

Also, keep in mind that many times this is done as a "nice" warning to parents at the beginning of the year.

And people wonder why 5th graders can't read....every year we have to teach them the same manners & what the state has deemed politically correct.
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Old 11-04-2008, 06:41 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,449,560 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
Mommabear,

I agree for the most part. Gemini was wise enough to propose this:

By signing this card, I, ________, am taking a stand for a safe and harrassment-free school for all students.
_________________ __________
(signature) (date)


Easy to explain, easy to enforce and reinforce, objective, no special interest, no agenda.
It's a very PC proposal and one that most parents would probably not object to. But...

Prosecuting the Gay Teen Murder - TIME

How does the above proposal curb the violence towards gay kids when the perpetrators are never taught to curb their hatred towards gays - from parents or schools? We all know that gay kids are singled out and it bothers me that people would turn a blind eye to it. You can say, "leave the gay kids alone" without endorsing it.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:07 PM
 
Location: in my mind
2,743 posts, read 14,256,076 times
Reputation: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear2 View Post
It's a very PC proposal and one that most parents would probably not object to. But...

Prosecuting the Gay Teen Murder - TIME

How does the above proposal curb the violence towards gay kids when the perpetrators are never taught to curb their hatred towards gays - from parents or schools? We all know that gay kids are singled out and it bothers me that people would turn a blind eye to it. You can say, "leave the gay kids alone" without endorsing it.
That's what I was thinking...

We have 3 kids in school and they tell me that using "gay" as an insult is common. Calling another kid "fa**ot" is common. Interestingly there was a girl that ID'ed as lesbian in high school and no one bothered her.....in fact, she and her girlfriend were voted "cutest couple" for the yearbook for their senior year, but a gay boy got harassed all the time (both in high school).

For some reason, teachers and admin and other school employees that would never tolerate a racial slur seem to look the other way if the name calling is "sissy" or similar.

My kids have not had any trouble, really, being from a "2 mom household"... until recently. There's a girl in my 11 year old son's class (I suspect she was held back a lot, she looks about 13/14!) that is trying to make an issue out of it, saying things like he's going to turn out gay because his mom is gay, starting rumors and the like. She's kinda new. So far no one else is taking the bait as all the other kids in his class have known him for years (and are aware of his family makeup) and he is well liked. For some reason this girl has focused on him and for this reason only... I do think that it comes from being raised to believe that this sort of insult is "okay", and from schools looking the other way.

Why else would schools like Harvey Milk High
exist if there was no problem with gay or lesbian kids being targeted?

CNN.com - First public gay high school to open in NYC - Jul. 29, 2003 (http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/07/28/gay.school.ap/ - broken link)
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:08 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 10,477,661 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear2 View Post
It's a very PC proposal and one that most parents would probably not object to. But...

Prosecuting the Gay Teen Murder - TIME

How does the above proposal curb the violence towards gay kids when the perpetrators are never taught to curb their hatred towards gays - from parents or schools? We all know that gay kids are singled out and it bothers me that people would turn a blind eye to it. You can say, "leave the gay kids alone" without endorsing it.
But if parents are doing little to nothing to properly teach their children, the pledge card has little to no impact on most.

Divided we fail.

Tolerance education is a life skill, not a weekly lesson that kids sleep through b/c it's boring as heck & the teacher is only teaching it b/c she was forced to put it in her lesson plan by the state.

If parents took an active role in the middle school & high school years when things start to get really, really tricky....and teachers & admin were not so jaded by state law....I think a lot of good could occur & more tolerance could

I was just telling my dh today that our sons will learn in history class how an African American man who came from nothing was given the opportunity to run as President of the US based on hard work & dedication to cause. So many told him no based on race but he kept on going. Our children will be learning about this one day. No matter what the outcome tonight, at least one history lesson is being formed for our children tonight that shows them how race, gender, nor creed should stop them from ever trying.

Everyone needs to work together on this one as cheesy as that sounds. Schools are not the fix.
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:17 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,449,560 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_flawless View Post
That's what I was thinking...

We have 3 kids in school and they tell me that using "gay" as an insult is common. Calling another kid "fa**ot" is common. Interestingly there was a girl that ID'ed as lesbian in high school and no one bothered her.....in fact, she and her girlfriend were voted "cutest couple" for the yearbook for their senior year, but a gay boy got harassed all the time (both in high school).

For some reason, teachers and admin and other school employees that would never tolerate a racial slur seem to look the other way if the name calling is "sissy" or similar.

My kids have not had any trouble, really, being from a "2 mom household"... until recently. There's a girl in my 11 year old son's class (I suspect she was held back a lot, she looks about 13/14!) that is trying to make an issue out of it, saying things like he's going to turn out gay because his mom is gay, starting rumors and the like. She's kinda new. So far no one else is taking the bait as all the other kids in his class have known him for years (and are aware of his family makeup) and he is well liked. For some reason this girl has focused on him and for this reason only... I do think that it comes from being raised to believe that this sort of insult is "okay", and from schools looking the other way.

Why else would schools like Harvey Milk High
exist if there was no problem with gay or lesbian kids being targeted?

CNN.com - First public gay high school to open in NYC - Jul. 29, 2003 (http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/07/28/gay.school.ap/ - broken link)
It's a shame that schools for gay/lesbian, etc are needed just so they can get their education without harassment or ridicule. I wonder who was there to fight for the kid (in my above link) who was shot at school (at the age of 15) because of the repulsion some ignorant punk felt for him. Maybe if our society, beginning with a school, could promote tolerance for our vulnerable gay/lesbian students, we wouldn't have these kinds of tragedies. We all know that derogatory gay terms are used on a regular basis on school campuses and not to mention the violence displayed towards them. Many parents aren't doing their job of promoting empathy towards all - that should obvious. The job of schools is to educate AND socialize our children. To me, teaching our kids to get along with gays/lesbian is just part of the job description (for parents AND schools) - I see no down side to it, I can only see positives.
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:48 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,449,560 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by 121804 View Post
But if parents are doing little to nothing to properly teach their children, the pledge card has little to no impact on most.

Divided we fail.

Tolerance education is a life skill, not a weekly lesson that kids sleep through b/c it's boring as heck & the teacher is only teaching it b/c she was forced to put it in her lesson plan by the state.

If parents took an active role in the middle school & high school years when things start to get really, really tricky....and teachers & admin were not so jaded by state law....I think a lot of good could occur & more tolerance could

I was just telling my dh today that our sons will learn in history class how an African American man who came from nothing was given the opportunity to run as President of the US based on hard work & dedication to cause. So many told him no based on race but he kept on going. Our children will be learning about this one day. No matter what the outcome tonight, at least one history lesson is being formed for our children tonight that shows them how race, gender, nor creed should stop them from ever trying.

Everyone needs to work together on this one as cheesy as that sounds. Schools are not the fix.
But schools are part of the solution as they have a profound influence on our kids. Socializing is easy for them as they have kids from all walks of life in one room. If you plant a seed now, we could be sitting in the shade years later. A pledge card might not have the effect that I would hope for, but it's a simple gesture for a complex problem, where else would one start? Tolerance/intolerance is learned from a young age, it's based upon what we are taught and exposed to. If children are never exposed to the concept that hatred/slurs towards gays is unacceptable, we get the wonderful gay intolerant environment that we have today... where fa**ot, "homo", "*****", and all the other fabulous slurs are freely used with wanton abandon.

I recall a teacher in middle school who took the time to talk to her class about a boy who happened to look like the kid from Webster (and he looked exactly like him). All it took was for her to stand next to him and say to the class that our words were hurting him, he didn't like to be called "Webby" or "Webster." I was one of those kids that called him that... but I never did it again - I didn't see it as hurtful at the time but a teacher made me realize it was. It took a few minutes. I think kids are more receptive than we give them credit for and that we have resources and the ability to make the lives out gay kids better. To me, it's not about us. It's not about adult political issues, it's about the gay/homosexual, trans gender kids. It's about what's in his/her best interest. If we could make one child's life remotely better by simply passing out a pledge card, why would we not want to unless we are making the issue about us.
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