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That is just over the line. Pulling down a kid's pants is wrong and disturbing, for any reason other than showing a toddler how to use the bathroom. There are so many things wrong with this line of thinking I can't even begin to go there. Way to psychologically, sexually, etc. f@*k up a person for a very long time, if not forever.
And that is YOUR opinion. I was on the jury of a trial 3 yrs ago for a woman charged with child abuse for spanking her 8yr old son with a paddle.
She was a smart one lemmie tell ya. She supoenea'd almost every successful outstanding citizen in the city, including 3 judges from other counties. Out of the 27 witnesses she had, all but one admitted to being spanked/paddled as a child; and they all stated they felt they were better adults for it. Not one of them had any ill will towards their parents, or felt their life was worse because of it. The judge was so moved by her creativity (and use of other judges in her case) he dismissed all charges within a few days.
I notice no one tries to hit their teenagers. Is it because they hit back and it hurts when they do it? Its easy to be a bully and use rationalization when your bigger and can overpower the person your doing it to.
All I can say to you is that you better be GLAD you are not a part of my family. My G grandma died 8yrs ago, and I can distinctly remember 12yrs ago my eldest cousin being arrested and convicted of petty theft right before the holidays. That Christmas we were all gathered for the holiday and my Ma J asked to see my cousin in another room. She proceeded to spank his booty for his crime. Now mind you, she was well into her 90's and 4'8" and maybe 85-90lbs MAX; while my cousin is 6'3" and a good 205lbs. He knew he had disapointed her and broke family rules, so he took his spanking (at age 37!!!!! ) like a man. Since then, he has not gotten so much as a jaywalking ticket. When they were done, they both calmly walked back into the living room, and she reminded us all that SHE was the reason we were all there living and breathing in that room, and her word was law, and none of us were too big to ever be taken down a peg if needed.
As horrified as your egalitarian sensibilities may be (hopefully no aneurysm occurred),
Get over yourself. You're not that good.
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a child trying to please his parents, to listen to them, learn from them and trying to make them proud is a normal and healthy part of family life.
Absolutely. Certainly not their raison d'etre. (Look it up.)
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That's the position of a disciple. If you think the only things children should do are those they are driven to from within by their own precious little selves, you are just plain misguided and too recent in your outlook to understand much about humanity.
I don't think I would have ever gotten the grades I got in school and would have achieved what I ended up achieving had I not had the desire to please my parents and make them proud when I was a child. Had I only acted based on my own interior drive, I don't think I would have had much to write home about in adulthood.
Yes, your run-of-the-mill genius will be self-driven to become an amazing human. Most kids are not. For many it takes "wanting to please the parent" to get them there. It is what explains the difference in academic success and often character between Asian children and American children.
You are entitled to raising your children however you see fit. However, you may want to leave alone those of us who'd rather not raise children whose only God is their own precious SELF.
I am not permitted to express my opinion in the same way you are? Why is that? Does my opinion threaten? Well it should.
It makes ME sick to my stomach. But I feel strongly and just cannot understand how anyone nowadays thinks hitting anyone with a weapon can possibly be "right".
Yes, this thread is extremely disturbing. But your posts are a breath of fresh air and I'd rep you 100 more times if I could. There is no issue more important than this one.
Clearly there is no reasoning with those who vehemently defend their imagined "right" to physically abuse children. I get the impression that many do so because in their minds they're following the Bible's mandate. And some, in their twisted reality, accuse those who speak up in challenge of their abuse of "bullying". Incredible, but they say it and do it because, so far, they can.
Attempts to educate are too often completely ineffective, so much more legal intervention is needed and new laws written to specifically prohibit striking a child with any object other than an open hand. I don't condemn a swat on the butt with a parent's hand, but as you have repeated pointed out, this thread is about "taking a belt to kids". And that is wrong....and is abuse....by any measure....in every case....no exceptions.
I wonder what the difference is between "swat" "belt" "beat". Myopic.
Take it from someone who was spanked, but also had a couple of beatings. Beatings are given by someone in a fit of rage and leaves bruises for a very long time. There is a HUGE difference between the two.
One of my beatings came when my father heard me say, (under my breath?....apparently NOT)...say, "I hate that sonofab**ch". It involved both hands AND the broom handle and resulted in severe brusing to my arms, back and legs, as well as a bloody nose. Believe me...there is a HUGE difference between a beating and a spanking.
Did it hurt my heart? Yeah, for a while it did. However, I'm the one who said it. You don't say those things about your parents. Should he have handled it differently? Oh yes, absolutely...but I survived and I NEVER said anything hurful like that about one of my parents again...well, at least not while they were on the property. LOL
Can't rep you BeachMel, but my sentiments exactly!
These spanking threads go on and on forever, and all it boils down to is everyone has their own idea on what is best for their children. But it should remain THEIR children, and not everybody else's. I'm sorry, but nobody is going to tell me how I should raise my child and what works best for disciplining her. I have lived with this child every single day of her life since the day she came out the womb, and I'm supposed to listen to a stranger who's knows nothing about me or her telling me what works and what doesn't with her? Not happening.
Unless something falls under the LEGAL definition of abuse, and not your own personal beliefs, you don't have to like it, you don't have to agree, but you probably should mind your own business. It's a shame that parents have to be afraid to swat their own child's behind in public for fear of a child abuse charge. It is infuriating to be in a store chastising your child and have a stranger butting in. And it is equally annoying to have people preaching at you about what a horrible, bad parent you are for spanking your child. Like I said, my child, my family, my decision.
I do think using a belt or any object is crossing the line, but that's just me. Other people use them, that's their choice, and as long as they're not injuring their child my opinion or anyone else's does not matter. I know plenty of people who were spanked with belts as a child and grew up healthy, normal, law abiding people. There is a difference between a parent out of control, taking their anger and frustrations out on a child, and a parent who is spanking out of love and the desire to teach their child right from wrong in whatever way works for that child.
Exactly right Anna.... How we discipline our children is no one else's business. I just love how people gloat like crazy over how their kids turned out absolutely fabulous, just because of their parenting techniques. Hey, some kids are just wired to not stray too far over the line. Taking credit for your child's/children's choices to simply be really good kids is the same thing as living vicariously through your children, IMHO.
I don't care what kind of discipline you choose to use, when raising your children. The thing of it is, you're only around them for a certain amount of time. They eventually get out of your sight. Ultimately, it's THEIR choices that determine how they'll behave. In my opinion, it's only the child who deserves the credit for being a "good kid". As has been said, there are a whole lot of amazing kids AND adults who were spanked as children and they survived AND harbor no ill will or psychological damage from the experience. Hey, if you got "spanked" as a child and you're screwed up over it....newsflash, you were "off" to start with. That spanking had NOTHING to do with it.
Another newsflash, if you were the kind of kid who got spanked ALL of the time, and yet you still did what you were being spanked for...YOU were an out of control, hard-headed little brat who probably would be diagnosed with ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder), now-a-days. Also, if you got spanked all the time...what the H*LL was wrong with you that you didn't stop doing the crap that you shouldn't have been doing? .....the things that were getting you spanked? I mean, DUH! "Dr. It hurts when I bend my finger backwards". DR...... "DON'T bend your finger backwards" Incidentally, if you WERE that kind of kid, the one who constantly did what you were told not to do, or constantly did what you KNEW you weren't supposed to do....because you were defying "authority"?..... YOU are/were a control freak!!
And that is YOUR opinion. I was on the jury of a trial 3 yrs ago for a woman charged with child abuse for spanking her 8yr old son with a paddle.
She was a smart one lemmie tell ya. She supoenea'd almost every successful outstanding citizen in the city, including 3 judges from other counties. Out of the 27 witnesses she had, all but one admitted to being spanked/paddled as a child; and they all stated they felt they were better adults for it. Not one of them had any ill will towards their parents, or felt their life was worse because of it. The judge was so moved by her creativity (and use of other judges in her case) he dismissed all charges within a few days.
Oh NO.... powerful, successful, professionals got spanked and are not against spanking?....were not psychologically harmed by it? Wow, imagine that Cav... who'da thought that was possible?
How children are disciplined certainly becomes EVERYONE's business when they grow up. Don't be fooled. Well-disciplined kids grow up to be productive, healthy, balanced citizens later on in the majority of cases. Whoever says it's none of our business is very short-sighted and frankly, wrong. Beating kids with a weapon like a belt should be absolutely and 100% illegal in every state, all the time. If you can't do it with your hand, because you don't think that is effective, you need to consider: why do you want to hit them so hard? Is it really about that kid, or YOU? Be honest with yourself. Your kids' well-being depends on it. And, remember, you don't own your kids; they were not put on this planet to please you, nor can you live through them vicariously. They are here to learn life lessons, and whether good or bad, we, having chosen to be their parents, are charged largely with teaching those lessons early in life. What we teach them and how, affects hugely how they turn out as adults, which, again, affects all of society at large. I want my kids to better than me, not a "mini me".
Last edited by MOMdotCOM2011; 09-10-2011 at 11:12 AM..
And I really do wish we would quit making this thread about spanking and stick to the original topic of debate: "Taking a belt to their kids". There IS a difference. I am not the thread police but we are talking about separate issues here.
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) like a man. Since then, he has not gotten so much as a jaywalking ticket. When they were done, they both calmly walked back into the living room, and she reminded us all that SHE was the reason we were all there living and breathing in that room, and her word was law, and none of us were too big to ever be taken down a peg if needed.
