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It's a very difficult age. It's hard to watch nice kids make bad choices. It's hard for kids to learn that sometimes friendships have to be let go of and to decide if that is the appropriate action or not...I wish your daughter - and her friend - the best.
I do think that choosing to do something without your parents or other adults is a very normal stage - and one that, if age appropriate and safe, needn't be discouraged. It's part of growing up. Our kids will from time to time be faced with situations that will challenge their beliefs and ethics. No amount of sheltering them will keep them from that -and occasionally stumbling. They are human and they are not "mini-me's" This is when parenting changes from the physically challenging (babies, toddlers etc) to emotionally challenging.
My first career was retail. I was in management in a large department store in a mall for 10 years. Kids were constantly dropped off at the mall to 'hang out'. Usually it was 3-4 girls in a group, sometimes more.
By the time they'd left, here's just a typical sample of some of the things they might have done while there.
Roamed all through our two level store often cursing, just because they could.
Left piles of clothes in multiple dressing rooms. (Unless they tried to wear it underneath their own clothes when they left or tried to wear it out and leave behind their own clothes - we had pretty good security and often they were caught)
Used every tester they could in the cosmetic department.
Tested out all the things in the kids small toy/gift area, especially when it was Hello Kitty stuff. (think pens/pencils/paper), which usually left it damaged.
Left drink cups in various places throughout the store.
Smoked in the bathroom.
Then, in the mall....
They met boys (often part of the plan) and participated in quite a bit of kissing and groping, especially if they went to a movie. Or perhaps at the movie they snuck into a different screening than what they had bought tickets for, or snuck into second movie after the first was over.
Escalators became part of a foot race that involved at least one lap up and down.
Restrooms became hiding places along with the smaller stores.
Most of the time these were the good kids. They were simply out and away from normal circumstances where peer pressure typically pulls towards the illicit thing being done instead of the right thing to do. And when they got picked up, they told mom all about the movie they saw (whether they saw it or not), the food they ate, who they saw and what they bought. But all the other activity stayed between the kids.
An of course, there was far worse stuff done by kids that were not so good. Sometimes all it took was one of those not so good kids to make the usually good kids skid off the right track too.
So, no, my older girls never went to just hang out at the mall without adult supervision, and neither will my younger kids when they get to that age. There are so many better choices of places to hang out, as others have said.
My first career was retail. I was in management in a large department store in a mall for 10 years. Kids were constantly dropped off at the mall to 'hang out'. Usually it was 3-4 girls in a group, sometimes more.
By the time they'd left, here's just a typical sample of some of the things they might have done while there.
Roamed all through our two level store often cursing, just because they could.
Left piles of clothes in multiple dressing rooms. (Unless they tried to wear it underneath their own clothes when they left or tried to wear it out and leave behind their own clothes - we had pretty good security and often they were caught)
Used every tester they could in the cosmetic department.
Tested out all the things in the kids small toy/gift area, especially when it was Hello Kitty stuff. (think pens/pencils/paper), which usually left it damaged.
Left drink cups in various places throughout the store.
Smoked in the bathroom.
Then, in the mall....
They met boys (often part of the plan) and participated in quite a bit of kissing and groping, especially if they went to a movie. Or perhaps at the movie they snuck into a different screening than what they had bought tickets for, or snuck into second movie after the first was over.
Escalators became part of a foot race that involved at least one lap up and down.
Restrooms became hiding places along with the smaller stores.
Most of the time these were the good kids. They were simply out and away from normal circumstances where peer pressure typically pulls towards the illicit thing being done instead of the right thing to do. And when they got picked up, they told mom all about the movie they saw (whether they saw it or not), the food they ate, who they saw and what they bought. But all the other activity stayed between the kids.
An of course, there was far worse stuff done by kids that were not so good. Sometimes all it took was one of those not so good kids to make the usually good kids skid off the right track too.
So, no, my older girls never went to just hang out at the mall without adult supervision, and neither will my younger kids when they get to that age. There are so many better choices of places to hang out, as others have said.
How do you know those were the "good kids"? They don't sound "good" to me. Using your same philosophy, were your girls allowed to go to the movies without you? Believe it or not, there ARE kids who know how to behave - it could be that you just didn't notice them because they didn't call attention to themselves.
How do you know those were the "good kids"? They don't sound "good" to me. Using your same philosophy, were your girls allowed to go to the movies without you? Believe it or not, there ARE kids who know how to behave - it could be that you just didn't notice them because they didn't call attention to themselves.
I certainly did not say it was every group nor did I say those were things that happened every time. I specifically said there were things that MIGHT have happened while there.
Of course there are groups of kids who are well behaved. My post was relating my experience with how good kids put into an unsupervised group can behave differently than when they are supervised.
As far as being good kids.....when you see a group of 3-4 girls for instance, and one is not actively participating in things like the cursing or escalator run you know they are probably a good kid basically. Or when you see one of them putting their trash in the trash can. Or when you give them the 'look' and they are visibly embarrassed and immediately stop doing what you've just caught them doing. Or you hear them trying to stop their friend from sneaking into the wrong theater. It's pretty easy to understand that one's basically a good kid. However, that doesn't stop others from doing what they are doing.
It's also pretty easy to know which ones are not so good. They glare right at you while they curse like a sailor. They tip their chin up at you and smirk while they toss their drink cup in the plant beside the escalator.
My older girls are now 27 and 23. I think they were probably about 15 when they decided they wanted to go with some friends to the movies on occasion. Most of the time neither wanted to pay the price for a movie or food at the theater. They'd much rather spend the evening at someone's house with the snacks of their choice, a movie they could stop when they wanted and be comfortable while doing it all.
I always thought hanging out at the mall was a rite of passage, a coming of age ritual, and anybody who never did it would grow up nostalgia-challenged. Go around and ask your adult women friends about hanging out at the mall when they were teenagers, and they will regale you with their favorite adolescent reminiscences.
Believe it or not, there ARE kids who know how to behave - it could be that you just didn't notice them because they didn't call attention to themselves.
Nice point.
I always sat back in amazement when I had parent-teacher conferences & the parents who were SO sure that hovering over their children meant their children were the cream of the crop & floated on air....ahh, yeah, think again...sometimes, those where the worst b/c the moment they got out of the unbreathable grasps of overprotective (to the point of unhealthy) parents, they were swearing & doing things that even the roughest kids would notice.
I worked in retail to & saw ADULTS leave piles of clothes in the fitting room; dirty diapers; empty food containers; adults who were beyond rude. SO, it's not just teeangers who act silly in the mall
My daughter 13 goes to the mall with her friends. She gets money to shop for clothes and to have lunch. I have no problem with it, we also live in a very small town and the mall is a glorified strip mall, We drop them off and pick them up. I find a lot of kids today are more mature than in my day. I was still playing with barbies and riding bikes at her age, she out grew barbies at 9yrs old.
She knows where the security office and phone is at the mall, She also goes to the movies with a group of friends. One of us parents will drop them off then pick them up. I think it is fine, now If I lived in a large city, I would have a different opinion I think.
What gangs use malls as recruiting area? Any proof to back that claim up? To think that I made it through all these years of life and never once was invited to join a gang...
I agree with maciesmom. The kids who were running up and down the escalators, smoking in the bathroom, and running around swearing were not "good" kids. They might not be the truly "bad" kids either, but well-behaved kids (and teens) do not behave like that. I didn't, my friends didn't, and I wouldn't tolerate it if my children did it. All the more reason to know the friends of your children.
Isn't working at the mall still sort of a rite-of-passage for many? When I was 16 I got a seasonal job at the mall - I took the bus out there on Saturdays and Sundays, put in my hours, and helped pay for the summer camp I wanted to attend. Some of those 12 and 13 year olds will want to be working there soon enough.
I admit that I do have a gender bias. Unless I had a son who was particularly into shopping (which realistically is not as common as it is with girls), I'd be more comfortable with a daughter spending time at the mall with friends than with a boy. Boys often interact with their friends differently than do girls, and in general it's less likely that they'd get the same pleasure out of browsing and shopping that many girls get.
I've never really been much of a mall person myself (rarely visit them, and try to get in and out when I do), but I did go to them sometimes as a teen. I think that communties as a whole need to provide local kids and teens with good alternatives to hanging out at the mall. Some places do a better job of that than others.
And on a less serious note, if your kids never hang out at the mall how are they going to fully appreciate the many cultural references found in so many '80s and '90s movies?
I guess that's my point - it depends on the kid, the mall and the situation. My DD never really went to the mall with a large group. Typically it was 2-3 girls total. There are badly behave people (children, teens and adults) in many different places - a bunch of not-nice kids hanging out in the park on a Saturday night wouldn't cause me to tell my kids they couldn't go to the park on a Sunday afternoon because after all "bad kids" hang out at the park and who knows WHAT might happen if they hung out at the park also.....If my kids are well behaved why shouldn't they reap the benefits of their good behavior with being trusted to do things without total supervision. Isn't that what growing up should be? That said, my kids know very well that if I ever received a phone call from a store or got a report from another parent who happened to witness improper behavior, that privilege (along with a slew of others) would be discontinued in a heartbeat.
Again, I would agree with Uptown that I would be more inclined to be suspicious (rightly or wrongly) if my son were spending time "hanging" at the mall. Mainly because, I know my son isn't particularly interested in "shopping" per se (unless looking at stuff in the sporting goods store for awhile counts - but even that gets old after awhile) so I'd be wondering what he was up to. Girls can easily fill hours walking around the mall and looking at clothes...most boys, not so much. With regard to working at the mall - many mall stores have upped their minimum age requirement to 18 so it's not necessarily that easy to work at the mall anymore....
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