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Everything I buy is organic, my dear. We don't even go near KFC or Taco Bell and no, he barely eats anything with coloring (and I advice for the same).
My kid plays in the dirt all the time, perhaps that's why his immune system is like a rock.
You are missing the point.
No, actually I think you are. You're jumping from one complaint to another, and when someone trounces you, you change tack and go off on another wandering paranoid rant about something else. Hey, be as paranoid as you want, knock yourself out. Just keep your unvaccinated kid out of the herd. And hey, ya know that dirt your kid plays in all the time...it's loaded with aluminum.
Oh, and it's a proven fact that "organic" ain't all it's cracked up to be, both in terms of how healthful it is for you and how "organic" farms affect the environment.
Touchofwhimsy, you definitely express my thinking better then me.
Here is some dangerous stuff about dangers of aluminum. So, now, your 18 month old baby already has aluminum from the vaccines, IN ADDITION to additional vaccines he will be getting through out his life, in ADDITION to numerous and often unavoidable ways he will be exposed to it through out his life, in ADDITION to antibiotics, mercury, etc...that exists in vaccines and you have yourself a nice soup of heavy metal toxicity that unfortunately is a problem in many kids today.
Liver Disease
Headaches
Heartburn
Nausea Constipation
Colicky Pain
Lack of Energy
Flatulence
Max's mama, I looked at the website you linked in your post and I can't help but point out that you've conveniently omitted the actual heading that was just above the list - the heading that read:
Possible Dangers from Aluminum Toxicity
I feel that by omitting the heading, your post could lead one to believe that those health problems are a direct result of aluminum exposure. Although I totally agree that excessive aluminum exposure is dangerous to anyone, infant or adult, I think it's dishonest to post part of the information from that website and omit the heading that indicates that those health problems are possible, and not conclusive.
That may be seen as just a small nitpick on my part, but I think it warrants clarification. I believe in honest disclosure, not selective highlighting. I also notice that the particular website you linked is actually for a company that sells natural products including an at-home "Aluminum Heavy Metal Kit". It's difficult for me to see a source of information as unbiased when they stand to benefit financially from the opinions they espouse. That's like a beer company promoting the virtues of hops consumption.
Last edited by ATX Wahine; 12-05-2009 at 04:11 PM..
No, actually I think you are. You're jumping from one complaint to another, and when someone trounces you, you change tack and go off on another wandering paranoid rant about something else. Hey, be as paranoid as you want, knock yourself out. Just keep your unvaccinated kid out of the herd. And hey, ya know that dirt your kid plays in all the time...it's loaded with aluminum.
Oh, and it's a proven fact that "organic" ain't all it's cracked up to be, both in terms of how healthful it is for you and how "organic" farms affect the environment.
Well, in that case, we are both missing the point.
Please don't jump on the bandwagon to insult me, I didn't attack you.
You keep bringing up all those things that have aluminum in it, and I already explained that I'm concerned about the build up of everything and please read all my posts before calling my kid unvaccinated.
It's irrelevant to conversation how organic farms affect the environment, a lot of organic beauty products and food products don't use aluminum, and nearly not as much chemicals as in conventional products.
Max's mama, I looked at the website you linked in your post and I can't help but point out that you've conveniently omitted the actual heading that was just above the list - the heading that read:
Possible Dangers from Aluminum Toxicity
I feel that by omitting the heading, your post could lead one to believe that those health problems are a direct result of aluminum exposure. Although I totally agree that excessive aluminum exposure is dangerous to anyone, infant or adult, I think it's dishonest to post part of the information from that website and omit the heading that indicates that those health problems are possible, and not conclusive.
That may be seen as just a small nitpick on my part, but I think it warrants clarification. I believe in honest disclosure, not selective highlighting. I also notice that the particular website you linked is actually for a company that sells natural products including an at-home "Aluminum Heavy Metal Kit". It's difficult for me to see a source of information as unbiased when they stand to benefit financially from the opinions they espouse. That's like a beer company promoting the virtues of hops consumption.
I'm confused. I didn't omit, I copied and pasted at the top. Try it and see yourself. Here is exactly how it comes up on my screen.
Here is the first thing that comes up in the beginning of the article:
Quote:
<H1>The Dangers of Aluminum
Quote:
If you don't already know, aluminum poses a very serious danger to the human body, and in small amounts. Here's a little background about aluminum.
Aluminum does not occur as a free metal but is found in minerals and ores. In its natural state it doesn't pose a threat. It's plentiful, (most abundant metal in the earth), and it is cheaply extracted for use in many things. It is resistant to corrosion and very light weight.
For these reasons, aluminum is used widely, in places you may not even thing to look for it. We wear it, cook in it, with it, eat and drink it and there is no use for aluminum in the human body. It is dangerous, toxic, to the human body and we continue to use it. Broad uses of aluminum in consumer products include:
</H1>
Additionally, if you are not happy with the website I provided, here are some more for you.
Me and my kids eat all sorts of crap, breath crap, get injected with crap, use deodorant, toothpaste, shampoos and lotions. And you know what? We will all live as long and as healthy a life as people who don't. Maybe even better because life seems to be unfair like that.
Sometimes I suspect people just NEED to feel like they are doing something.
You took the time to cut and paste from that website the list of possible dangers but omitted the heading that identified them as POSSIBLE DANGERS. There isn't anything confusing about that - you were selectively highlighting, plain and simple.
As far as the three additional links you've offered - they are ALL opinion pieces from individuals. None of them offer any research data or test results.
The first is from an artist named Monika Dery. She is a German-born artist who resides in Canada and has no medical or scientific background. Her website is a collection of her artwork and blog writings.
The second link is for a website for women. This website includes information and articles on subjects such as hobbies, home decor, beauty, auto care, education, relationships, etc. The article you linked was written by a guest author named Linda Paul. Her bio states that she is a Universalist and a Pagan who works as a shift supervisor for CVS Drugstore. She has no medical or scientific background. The final sentence of her piece states "This information is for informational purpose only and is not intended to replace the care or advice of a physician." This is what's called a disclaimer, and it's there for a reason.
The third link is from the same website as the second piece you linked and was written by their alternative medicine editor. Her name is Victoria Abreo. Her bio states that she is an author who works in the home healthcare field and teaches holistic care for animals, and that her goal is completing her education in holistic healthcare. Her bio includes a letter from the celebrity Dick Clark, who speaks highly of her 'Pet Comfort bag' product that she sells.
Max's mama, are you kidding me? Is this what you consider due diligence and appropriate research in making choices for your family? Opinion pieces from people with no formal training in either medical or scientific fields?
Interesting study, I've always thought of shingles as an illness that affects adults. I was surprised to hear that it is affecting so many children. I tried to find information regarding the rates of shingles in children over the last 20 years but couldn't find anything at all. I wonder if that info is even tracked? I'm not discounting the validity of this study, I just think that knowing the rates prior to the vaccine would be very helpful and important. While looking for this information I did find another study showing that the rates of shingles have increased since the introduction the vaccine but unfortunately could not find anything specifically relating to shingles in children. Herpes zoster-related hospitalizations and expendi... [Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2008] - PubMed result
You are correct: 1.) Shingles WAS always believed to be a disease of old; immunocompromised children are afflicted too. 2.) the incidence of HZ in the pediatric population has not been fully--if at all--documented; since HZ was believed to be a disease of the old, most surveillance was probably directed towards adults only. I did provide information for a "base line study" that was carried out, and the numbers they got were close to those provided from this recent study. **I believe the reason that I did not link to the article was due to it not being free.** 3.) Because the causative strain of HZ has not been fully elucidated, it is difficult to say whether the OKA strain (used in the varicella vaccine) will be enough to protect future population against shingles. Also, another study (Tseng) was recently released and it stated that there may be additional factors (including genetic disposition) involved in shingles. 4.) the reason why the rates of shingles have increased is because of the eradication of the wild-strain due to the varicella vaccine. Those who acquired chicken naturally, are not being exposed by that strain (natural booster).
So this is a very convoluted situation. . .and I think it is very hard for many people to wrap their heads around the idea that science is ever evolving. Just because we are doing something at this moment, does not make it right tomorrow. Unfortunately, we are all participants--whether we like it or not. . .
This is a very difficult situation. . .and we have to wait and see. Unfortunately for us, no one researcher truly knows the causative mechanisms for HZ and whether the OKA strain will be enough against varicella-zoster. . .it is simply too early. Just know that many people are watching those first few kids who received the vaccine some 15 years ago.
You took the time to cut and paste from that website the list of possible dangers but omitted the heading that identified them as POSSIBLE DANGERS. There isn't anything confusing about that - you were selectively highlighting, plain and simple.
As far as the three additional links you've offered - they are ALL opinion pieces from individuals. None of them offer any research data or test results.
The first is from an artist named Monika Dery. She is a German-born artist who resides in Canada and has no medical or scientific background. Her website is a collection of her artwork and blog writings.
The second link is for a website for women. This website includes information and articles on subjects such as hobbies, home decor, beauty, auto care, education, relationships, etc. The article you linked was written by a guest author named Linda Paul. Her bio states that she is a Universalist and a Pagan who works as a shift supervisor for CVS Drugstore. She has no medical or scientific background. The final sentence of her piece states "This information is for informational purpose only and is not intended to replace the care or advice of a physician." This is what's called a disclaimer, and it's there for a reason.
The third link is from the same website as the second piece you linked and was written by their alternative medicine editor. Her name is Victoria Abreo. Her bio states that she is an author who works in the home healthcare field and teaches holistic care for animals, and that her goal is completing her education in holistic healthcare. Her bio includes a letter from the celebrity Dick Clark, who speaks highly of her 'Pet Comfort bag' product that she sells.
Max's mama, are you kidding me? Is this what you consider due diligence and appropriate research in making choices for your family? Opinion pieces from people with no formal training in either medical or scientific fields?
No, my husband is a holistic health practitioner who graduated from Institute of Integrative Nutrition in New York City and he is my main source.
Anyway, damned if I do, damned if I don't, doesn't matter. To me, for example, CDC site is not an authority, but that's okay. Top each it's own.
You can nitpick on my websites all day long, but it doesn't change the fact that aluminum is harmful for your body. You can make yourself feel better thinking that it's just "possible" that it's harmful, it's up to you.
I get what you mean, I didn't selectively highlight, I just highlighted the dangers, and didn't include the title "possible" simply because - I INCLUDED THE ENTIRE WEBSITE, for everyone to see. So, please don't pretend there was deception on my part, if I really wanted to be deceiving, I wouldn't include the entire article for everyone to see.
I see that you just developed a bad taste in your mouth about me and you really just want to say anything to prove me wrong, that's fine. I'll take my choices not to unneccessarily expose my kid to aluminum. Call me paranoid, call me crazy, I don't care. If I can PROTECT my kid from aluminum exposure, I will do it.
This is a very difficult situation. . .and we have to wait and see. Unfortunately for us, no one researcher truly knows the causative mechanisms for HZ and whether the OKA strain will be enough against varicella-zoster. . .it is simply too early. Just know that many people are watching those first few kids who received the vaccine some 15 years ago.
One of the amazing, fascinating yet utterly frustrating things about the sciences is that a hypothesis can never be stated as "true". It can be accepted, but never labeled as 100% fact, done, finished, that is the answer. And a good hypothesis only leads to more questions, thus more research. Science is not exact. Medicine is not exact. I've NEVER meet a doctor who "promises" anything & if they did, I wouldn't want to be a patient.
But we live in a society that wants the answer NOW and it better be a concrete answer, thus the **** poor "research" studies that are handed out like Halloween candy to network news and Aunt Sally picks it up and takes it literally and tells it to Grandma who tells her bridge club who tell all their children and before you know it, you got a ton of people believing something that more than likely has more flaws than fact!
I keep thinking of H1N1 vaccine and how many of the serious peds cases are due to the coinfection of pneummonia. So, what is more important: kids being vaccinated against pnuemmonia or H1N1?
A person has to know how to sort through the research, understand the terminology, and most important, not be looking for a specific answer.
You are correct: 1.) Shingles WAS always believed to be a disease of old; immunocompromised children are afflicted too. 2.) the incidence of HZ in the pediatric population has not been fully--if at all--documented; since HZ was believed to be a disease of the old, most surveillance was probably directed towards adults only. I did provide information for a "base line study" that was carried out, and the numbers they got were close to those provided from this recent study. **I believe the reason that I did not link to the article was due to it not being free.** 3.) Because the causative strain of HZ has not been fully elucidated, it is difficult to say whether the OKA strain (used in the varicella vaccine) will be enough to protect future population against shingles. Also, another study (Tseng) was recently released and it stated that there may be additional factors (including genetic disposition) involved in shingles. 4.) the reason why the rates of shingles have increased is because of the eradication of the wild-strain due to the varicella vaccine. Those who acquired chicken naturally, are not being exposed by that strain (natural booster).
So this is a very convoluted situation. . .and I think it is very hard for many people to wrap their heads around the idea that science is ever evolving. Just because we are doing something at this moment, does not make it right tomorrow. Unfortunately, we are all participants--whether we like it or not. . .
This is a very difficult situation. . .and we have to wait and see. Unfortunately for us, no one researcher truly knows the causative mechanisms for HZ and whether the OKA strain will be enough against varicella-zoster. . .it is simply too early. Just know that many people are watching those first few kids who received the vaccine some 15 years ago.
What I'm wondering is how many cases were there of children with shingles in the years prior to the chicken pox vaccine up until now. Are we seeing more since the vaccine was introduced or less or is it basically the same? I don't think those numbers are out there so I will probably never know.
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Pediatric HZ not documented. . .
