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Yes malamute, I think that is it. The problem is, what to do about it? When I try to talk to her about it, she just clams up and stomps off to her room, so I've not tried to talk to her about it lately. I've gotten books about developing social skills for kids and left them lying around, but I have no idea if she's read them. That sounds like a terribly obvious ploy, but we always have books lying around here and I work with sped high school kids. Also, I've tried speaking with her about eye contact, because I know this is always a problem for shy people, but I can't really tell if that has changed much. However, all the eye contact in the world isn't going to help if you put people off with a superior attitude.
Sometimes you can tell them in a way that makes someone else the focal point. You might try telling her about a friend you once knew, or a relative, or classmate who was deep down really very nice but couldn't make friends too well because she would try to impress them by being something she wasn't.
That way it's not a lecture, but something she may end up relating to and learning from.
I have a feeling she's already got some poor self-esteem, is trying hard, way too hard to impress others and trying very hard to at least earn their admiration but is failing and making it harder for others to like her. It's hard to tell a child to just be themselves when they don't think others will like them for that - and that happens when self esteem is actually too low.
Or just help her get through high school the best she can, maybe outside activities where she can get off on the right foot and help her realize in college, she will meet more people, different people, people with which she can better relate. Sometimes 4-H, where the kids aren't trying to be impressed with academics in the first place but use their animals as a way to interact can help kids socialize. Or church, or something quite different than the high school.
High school isn't the highlight of many people's lives.
Also -- you have to accept that the reaction about parents is pretty normal at that age.
My mom would volunteer with the lunch program at school and at one point had 3 sons in the school.
She laughed how the 2nd grader would be telling all the kids, "hey, that's my mom" and acting very proud of her when she served up lunch. By the time a child is in 6th grade they're a little more reserved about their parents, that son would pass through the line, say hi but not make a big deal. By 8th grade, kids pass themselves off as orphans or something and the 8th grader would be very reserved, and say a quiet "hi" like she was some neighbor woman or something, kind of like "keep this parent thing between you and me".
It's no different with the popular kids, I found out in high school that the head cheerleader came from one of the more shabby homes of the school. Even though her parents sacrificed for her to have the finest clothes, she would not bring dates to the home but would have them pick her up at a friend's home, of course a friend with a very nice home. She was ashamed of her parents and her home -- and was only putting on a show for everyone. So it's a common enough thing in high school, but luckily it's only 4 years.
Children find their identity with things in which they excel. That's where confidence comes from too. Your daughter is finding confidence is in her intelligence. Her gloating isn't any different than a football jock gloating. The football jock might be more socially popular, but not everyone needs to be popular. I'm sure Bill Gates wasn't very socially adjusted as a child.
What's to gain by pointing out her lack of social skills? That's only going to make her more self conscious. Think about it.
When my sister was 25, she called me because she was upset by something my mother said. She was talking to our mother about a problem she was having with someone. My mother responded, "Awe, you always did have a difficult time making friends." MEANWHILE, my sister never viewed herself as someone who had a difficult time making friends. She was totally content with her social life growing up. It upset my sister that her reality was different from our mother's perception. When you get down to it, my sister wouldn't have grown up to be a confident person if my mother had been pointing out her lack of social skills and difficulty making friends while she was a kid.
What you and the world see isn't as important as how the daughter feels about herself. If she's having a problem with it and complaining about not having friends, then it would be appropriate to step in with advice. But she hasn't recently shared that she's unhappy with her level of socializing. You're drawing attention and making a bigger problem out of it.
It's all water under the bridge now. You've already talked about it. You've already bought books for her. You've already put the negative thoughts into her head.
But hopefully it's not too late to back off and wait for her to come to you about it.
Children find their identity with things in which they excel. That's where confidence comes from too. Your daughter is finding confidence is in her intelligence. Her gloating isn't any different than a football jock gloating. The football jock might be more socially popular, but not everyone needs to be popular. I'm sure Bill Gates wasn't very socially adjusted as a child.
No matter who does it though, gloating isn't socially acceptable. I think there are things to gain by trying to help a socially awkward child/adolescent....assuming however that the child is bothered by it. We all want our kids to have a friend or two, not necessarily to be "popular" but to have a peer to share experiences with. Life could be awfully lonely without that - be it a platonic relationship or later a romantic and/or intimate one. Nothing wrong with wanting your child to be have the tools for this.
No matter who does it though, gloating isn't socially acceptable. I think there are things to gain by trying to help a socially awkward child/adolescent....assuming however that the child is bothered by it. We all want our kids to have a friend or two, not necessarily to be "popular" but to have a peer to share experiences with. Life could be awfully lonely without that - be it a platonic relationship or later a romantic and/or intimate one. Nothing wrong with wanting your child to be have the tools for this.
Agreed. But there's a way to teach a child that gloating isn't appropriate without making a big deal about it. The last thing this child needs is being told she's socially awkward.
which doesn't sound like a problem, but I fear that it is getting to be. She's 15 and has no friends who come to our house, though I think she hangs out with some kids at school. She's never really had any friends, and I know it bothers her.
She's in the honor society and the debate team, and when I was at a debate tournament last week I saw her make a good point (she thought it was anyway) and the look of triumph on her face bothered me. I don't mean that I don't want her to be proud of her performance, but it was too gloating, if that makes sense. I talked to her later about using a "poker face," but I'm not sure how else to handle this. She has also been insensitive with me lately--yes I know she's a teenager, but I fear that she thinks that because she's so smart, she doesn't have to consider peoples' feelings. Or maybe she just doesn't anyway. Does anyone have any advice about how to help her with social skills? Or how to rein in her pride? I really don't know how to approach this, b/c I was also gifted and had few friends, though I think my problems were more due to having ADD than to being smart--I don't think she has ADD.
No offence, but I knew few smart kids in HS who were socially gifted. Celebrate your daughter's gifts and make the most of it. She'll be paying for your care a few years from now.
This has been one of my biggest fears, and in part why we homeschool so the kids don't see the difference so directly. Do you think that she had developed an "attitude" as a defense mechanism to deal with bullying from other kids? I had few friends I actually hung out with outside of school. I got along with everyone but the two people I got along with the best when I was 17 were 15 and 19. For the three of us who had not had friends we could confine in so well, we developed very strong emotional relationships very quickly and the adults in our lives were honestly afraid of that, like we all were more then friend with each other or something. That is the joy of gifted kids, they pour all their passion into one tea cup. for everything they do. That is very hard to deal with. The three of us were best friends but I constantly got berated for wanting to be friends with a girl who was two grades lower and a boy who, god forbid, was over the age of 18. My parents and siblings also made fun of me at home for it. I could see why she might want to hide something like that.
A very different experience I can relate to the gloating is about a girl I know. She was an overweight child and was always made fun of at school, by all kids it had to be the cop's kid of course. She took it from k-the 5th grade when one day she had enough and punched him in the stomach and made him cry. She still gloats to this day about that one moment when she could show up those who made fun of her.
It could simply be that is why she has the attitude. I know that I myself don't have a problem showing someone up. I take it as a challenge and I will go out to prove to that person that they are wrong. Tell me I CAN"T do something and I WILL do it above and beyond anything anyone would dare to even try. That stems back to my childhood where I was repressed by my parents, I couldn't do this or I would to that. My mother had a way of getting sympathy from people by telling them what a horrid child I was and that I would become a drug addict, pregnant at 16 ect. I did what I could to prove her wrong. I'm not saying you are doing these things but maybe there is something that seems little to you that is really bothering her that may have to do with home life or school life.
I bet she is feeling a bunch of crazy emotions. She could be wanting to hide who her friends are. She could have the same attitude I had that in a couple years everyone will move away and find new friends and that these people aren't all that interesting. She could simply be annoyed by the immaturity of her peers. (Even though gifted kids sometimes have moments that are far more immature.)
Maybe school is not providing her with the opportunity to connect with teens that provide her with the right type of stimulation. I would engage her in activies outside of school that allow her to meet people that share similar passions. Even 4H has non-farm groups that she might be into.
Some suggested that you use someone else as an example, like a friend you once knew. A gifted child will see right though it and will be resentful about it. Put yourself in your shoes, everything you do, you are the best. It is easy and they can clearly see that they are at the top. They just need a challenge, something that makes them see on their own that there are others out there like them that might just outwit them.
Nature and Needs of Gifted (http://brettaberger.com/Family%20&%20Community.htm - broken link) This site offers a few other links as well.
One, Hoagies' Gifted: Perfectionism and the Highly Gifted Child (http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/perfectionHG.htm - broken link) is about perfectionsim. DD's room is always meticulous, every little thing has its place and anything that is percieved as clutter is out.
I really hope this helps. I feel for both you and your daughter. I remember I hide myself until the last two years of high school and only really let the entirety of myself out the last couple months just to bewilder them and then left and never looked back. (I'd always been like the little sweet and innocent sister that needed to be stuck up for by most people.) I haven't had to deal with our kids having attitudes yet but we are still a bit away from the teen years. I tend to forget the reality of it sometimes then I read something like your post and it makes me worry all over again.
Just remember that there have been a HUGE amount of changes in her life in the last year. I wouldn't even be surprised if she is blaming herself for the divorce and being angry with you about everything. She is probably less embarrassed by you than she is about having you see who she is. If you pointed out her not having friend at some point, maybe she is doing her best to avoid another one of those conversations. As for the crockpot thing, all kids do those things. I wouldn't take it personally, just remind her about her responsibility.
What's to gain by pointing out her lack of social skills? That's only going to make her more self conscious. Think about it.
What you and the world see isn't as important as how the daughter feels about herself. If she's having a problem with it and complaining about not having friends, then it would be appropriate to step in with advice. But she hasn't recently shared that she's unhappy with her level of socializing. You're drawing attention and making a bigger problem out of it.
It's all water under the bridge now. You've already talked about it. You've already bought books for her. You've already put the negative thoughts into her head.
But hopefully it's not too late to back off and wait for her to come to you about it.
Hopes, you're right that talking a lot about it would make her more self conscious, but you're wrong if you think I have. I have not talked endlessly about this, I haven't bought books for her, and I haven't drawn a lot of attn to it. Where did you get that idea? In fact, I have been very circumspect about this, because I remember how i felt as a child, and how ashamed I was of having this problem. The thing I'm here for is, I can see now what she may be doing wrong, and would like to address it in the kindest possible way. Since she is gifted, I can't just bulldoze my way thru this.
When I talked to her about keeping a poker face in the debate, I framed it as advice for future debate tournaments and she took it well--I didn't tell her how it bothered me to see her gloat. When we spoke about the incident with the crock pot, we were having a fight, but I didn't come at her with something like, "and that's why you don't have friends." I phrased it as, "if we were friends and you did that to me, it would hurt the friendship." In other words, I wanted her to know that it's not ok to treat people like that, not even your mother. BTW, I know teens do stuff like that, but it was the casual way she blew me off about it, like what I wanted wasn't the least bit important that bothered me--and it's true--if you treated a friend like that it would hurt the friendship.
When we spoke about eye contact, that was a couple of years ago, and she did come to me to talk about it. I know this really bothers her--as a baby and small girl she was very social. My other daughter doesn't really have a lot of friends either, but she is fine with that, and wasn't really outgoing as a baby either, so I don't worry about it as much.
I know that neither of them blame me for the divorce--dad came out gay almost exactly one year ago, and older DD is also gay, so they both understand a lot about the issue and we have been able to talk about it without much bitterness. Still, this was a huge shock to all of us as none of us saw it coming, and I thought we were doing well but am realizing that family counseling would be the best option for us. I keep telling them that we're trying to find a new normal, and I think things will be better for the new year.
Hopes, you're right that talking a lot about it would make her more self conscious, but you're wrong if you think I have. I have not talked endlessly about this, I haven't bought books for her, and I haven't drawn a lot of attn to it. Where did you get that idea?
I got the idea because you said so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepka
Yes malamute, I think that is it. The problem is, what to do about it? When I try to talk to her about it, she just clams up and stomps off to her room, so I've not tried to talk to her about it lately. I've gotten books about developing social skills for kids and left them lying around, but I have no idea if she's read them.
Regardless, I'm just warning you that anything said---even once---can be destructive if she hasn't expressed concern for herself---especially if it's presented as criticism. If someone has found social contentment, it would sort of suck to hear someone point out social failings. I'm not judging. I'm simply trying to offer some a different perspective.
The gloating thing doesn't need to be anything more than simply saying once "you shouldn't gloat about your intelligence." PERIOD. There's nothing else to say about it. She'll remember you said that one day. You have indicated that you've tried to discuss it more than once. If she stomps off to her room, she's not feeling good about what you're trying to say. And I'll bet you that she already got the message. There's really no reason to talk about it again.
You might want to see faster results (I don't blame you---I'm a mom dealing with some issues that I'd like to see faster results on too!), but aim for planting seeds instead. She might not change this year. She might not change while in high school. However, when she goes off into the world as an adult and runs into certain situations, she'll remember what you said.
Try positive reinforcement. Make a point to praise her when you catch behavior you'd like to see again.
I also always found that it's very helpful to remind kids of success in the past too.
And there's always good old reverse psychology. My parents were experts at it. For instance, when I was the first child in the family to get a license (I was a middle child), they told me it was because I was the most responsible. In turn, I took the responsibility seriously. Funny, I look back as an adult and realize that my oldest sister was truly the most responsible, not me. They just said that so I would be responsible. It worked.
OK, I see why you thought that, but they were library books and were in piles with other library books on similar subjects because I'm studying to get certified to teach special ed. It wouldn't be suspicious at all, and she would be more prone to dig into my books than your average child.
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