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Would the concerns be the same if you had caught him doing this with a girl?
I believe I would have many of the same concerns and some different ones. I believe I would try to put more distance between him and a girl he was doing these sorts of things with than I necessarily want to between him and this friend. I don't know exactly what I'd be thinking.
In any event, I'm not freaking out because I think my son is gay (in fact, I don't), I'm freaking out because my 11 year old son was having sex in my garage and (somewhat understandably) does not want to stop.
DW and I discussed the idea of letting DS talk to a therapist, but we really don't want to make a big deal out of this incident.
I agree that you shouldn't take him to a therapist.
I also support your decision to not tell the other parent at this point. You need to have a better grasp of the situation before you can make that decision.
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Originally Posted by JustSomePerson
I think we would have been a lot quicker to put it behind us if DS had not made it clear he wished to continue the behavior.
That is the perplexing part. Mine didn't outright tell me they would continue to do something I disapproved of until they were in 9th grade.
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Originally Posted by JustSomePerson
And I think the difference between him and other kids in the same situation is just his honesty.
Perhaps. I'm just a little perplexed by his insistence at such a young age. Reminds me of when I had a child who loved marijuana so much----outright told me wanted to continue smoking it. I just couldn't imagine that happening at a younger age though. Then again, sex does feel good so why wouldn't your son want to continue! I just wish he'd chose to do it privately instead of with others. It's like he's slipped into group masterbation. Wish there was some way to convey that masterbation is a private matter. Then again, maybe it's not for this new generation. Who knows!
In any event, I'm not freaking out because I think my son is gay (in fact, I don't), I'm freaking out because my 11 year old son was having sex in my garage and (somewhat understandably) does not want to stop.
I only I mentioned the difference in handling it because you didn't share that you discussed a concern for safe sex.
And I think that would be the first conversation a parent would have catching a heterosexual type encounter.
I'd also like to point out that I think the conversations are different with younger children.
The sex is for marriage definitely applies to 11 year olds. Safe sex talks are generally with slightly older children. But if your child is having sex, then safe sex applies now.
There is a possibility that this is different from heterosexual encounters between children. It MIGHT be the same thing, but I think you owe it to your son to get to the bottom of it. This could be the result of one of the boys acting out from being sexually abused. I wouldn't want to put a blind eye to that possibility. Be opened minded that it could be either child. I'd want to get to the bottom of WHY. The reality is that children who have been molested also act out with children their own age or younger. I think it's important to identify if it is normal homosexual experimentation on a mutual level. I think it's important to figure out who initiated it. If your son initiated it, I would want to find out if he's been molested in the past.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
I think this could be a bad sign. Too much sexual detail that makes people uncomfortable is a trademark warning sign.
DS sleeps well, eats well, gets along with others (sometimes!), is well-balanced, confident, energetic, and happy, and hasn't had an accident since he was a toddler. I used to work with abused children and I am somewhat able to pick up on it. I am as sure as I can be that DS has not been abused.
As for the uncomfortable openness as a sign, I don't think the cases I was thinking of are too compelling. I was thinking of two situations, both involving his masturbation. Some time ago DS came out for lunch with a smirk, seeming a bit bubbly. DW asked him what he was so happy about and he brushed it off so she asked again, and he explained that he discovered a new way to masturbate and had - and I quote - " the best orgasm ever". This was shortly after we had a frank talk about masturbation and, though awkward, was isolated. The other is the fact that he marches down the hall from the bathroom to his bedroom with a thing of lotion without any attempt to conceal it. I should gently suggest he start keeping it in his room.
The fact that he started masturbating regularly at a somewhat young age could be seen as a sign as well, but I do not think it is. I do not believe we are in denial.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
I don't think this is experimenting. I think it's way too old for sex-exploration playing-doctor type behavior. This is sex. Period.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
If you determine that you are confident that your son has not been molested in the past, then move on to treating this as you would early sex between heterosexual children.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
Good question. I think the OP would be harsher on the boy if he had found him with a girl. He would be lecturing about birth control, rubbers and safe sex. The safe sex, wait until you're married speech should still happen even though two boys can't get pregnant. Homosexuals need to have safe sex too. Homosexuals should wait for love too. All of these conversations shouldn't be tossed aside because it's not a heterosexual encounter. I think that's a mistake--especially when you consider it's highly likely that he's not homosexual. The message about safe sex won't reach him to apply to heterosexual sex. It's a unique double standard. And I doubt it's a double standard the OP intended.
I am not sure I entirely buy this. (FWIW, DW does.) Emotionally, I don't think this is quite the same as it would be if he had sex with a boy or girl who he had a romantic attraction or such to.
Diseasewise it obviously is. It sounds like DS has not engaged in oral or anal sex. One major reason I wanted to find out was because of STIs.
Every year, the month of our kids' birthdays, we try to have a sex talk with them, and to remain open to questions as they may or may not come. Last year's for this son focused on masturbation since we knew he had started, and next years would have picked up with new information about safe sex. Evidently, we'll have to move it up.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
I'm not saying you handled it wrong. I think it's wise that you didn't make a big deal about it when you caught them in the act. I also think it's wise you kept your son comfortable when you first talked to him. Not doing so could really screw up a kid's sexuality. However, I think more needs to be addressed going forward.
You can stop sleep overs at your house, but you are really in a place where you shouldn't allow him to go to other kids houses. Just think how other parents will react if they catch him with their son. THAT will screw him up sexually. You need to say, "Hey, sex is for marriage." I could care less if homosexuals can't get married. I highly doubt he's homosexual. I don't think you should allow them being the same sex to keep you from drawing a strong line about your expectations regarding sex.
I am not sure I'd be as heavy-handed as you suggest if it was a girl instead of a boy. The situation is awkward because our society's traditions are built around giving boys and girls few opportunities together but nurturing close same-sex friendships which naturally would have time and privacy enough to make sexual opportunities numerous. I certainly don't want to deprive my son of close friendships or unnecessarily of some privacy and freedom.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
These are very real fears. I've known parents who have chosen to not tell about catching opposite sex playing doctor type behavior. Your son needs to be aware that even the boy himself might talk about him to other kids. If the other boy has any type of uncomfortable feelings about the encounter, he might react by telling other kids that your son is gay.
I am starting to think we will not be telling the other parents, but we will keep thinking about this in the coming days. As for the other boy leaking information, that is a risk I suppose exists, but I am not sure I will remind DS of it.
11 years old just seems really young to be doing things like this, and too young to simply excuse these actions without recourse, especially since he seems so defiant about it.
When I was 11, sex was one of the last things on my mind, all I knew is that I liked looking at girls' boobs (if they had any). I probably didn't see my first porn movie until 12 or 13, and it was usually in a group of boys, but getting out our Johnsons and wanking it never crossed our minds (at least not mine), and the idea of doing so was never vocalized by any of the other boys. In my case, "self-exploration" didn't occur until about 13 1/2, with my first sexual experience occurring at 14.
The reason I mention my experiences, is to provide perspective. IMO, my experiences are what could be considered to be rather normal. Think back to when you were his age, and how your parents might have reacted if you were doing what he was doing (with a boy, girl, or otherwise, and lets pretend homophobia isn't an issue (I know it's not in your case)). Would it be the same as you are reacting? What are you afraid of doing to him (if applicable)? Could a negative reaction from you do more damage to him than he could be possibly doing to himself, or letting somebody else do to him?
I too, wonder if he has been abused, or if the things he is doing is because of some sort of peer pressure. Is the friend older?
I agree that you shouldn't take him to a therapist.
I also support your decision to not tell the other parent at this point. You need to have a better grasp of the situation before you can make that decision.
That is the perplexing part. Mine didn't outright tell me they would continue to do something I disapproved of until they were in 9th grade.
Perhaps. I'm just a little perplexed by his insistence at such a young age. Reminds me of when I had a child who loved marijuana so much----outright told me wanted to continue smoking it. I just couldn't imagine that happening at a younger age though. Then again, sex does feel good so why wouldn't your son want to continue! I just wish he'd chose to do it privately instead of with others. It's like he's slipped into group masterbation. Wish there was some way to convey that masterbation is a private matter. Then again, maybe it's not for this new generation. Who knows!
I think I might have made my thoughts sound like advice rather than orders. I do this at times. If one of my children is hit by another child, I prefer they find a way to settle it with their words and have let them know that, but I don't blame them if they choose to hit back. If they hit another kid first, they're in trouble. If we go to a buffet I prefer that my children get a balanced meal, but I don't nag them if they get a big stack of pizza. At home, they have to eat their vegetables. I think he might have reacted to my putting my foot down too lightly.
DS masturbates by himself on a regular basis. It sounds like inappropriate activities with his friends have been going on only a few months, and I know he has been masturbating regularly for over a year. He always does so privately and does not seem to be ashamed.
I only I mentioned the difference in handling it because you didn't share that you discussed a concern for safe sex.
And I think that would be the first conversation a parent would have catching a heterosexual type encounter.
I'd also like to point out that I think the conversations are different with younger children.
The sex is for marriage definitely applies to 11 year olds. Safe sex talks are generally with slightly older children. But if your child is having sex, then safe sex applies now.
We will definitely be discussing safe sex with DS soon. If I had caught them engaging in a riskier sex act I think I would have focused more on that in my reaction. It was important to me to find out whether he had oral or anal sex because of such concerns. Thanks for reinforcing this important lesson.
11 years old just seems really young to be doing things like this, and too young to simply excuse these actions without recourse, especially since he seems so defiant about it.
When I was 11, sex was one of the last things on my mind, all I knew is that I liked looking at girls' boobs (if they had any). I probably didn't see my first porn movie until 12 or 13, and it was usually in a group of boys, but getting out our Johnsons and wanking it never crossed our minds (at least not mine), and the idea of doing so was never vocalized by any of the other boys. In my case, "self-exploration" didn't occur until about 13 1/2, with my first sexual experience occurring at 14.
The reason I mention my experiences, is to provide perspective. IMO, my experiences are what could be considered to be rather normal. Think back to when you were his age, and how your parents might have reacted if you were doing what he was doing (with a boy, girl, or otherwise, and lets pretend homophobia isn't an issue (I know it's not in your case)). Would it be the same as you are reacting? What are you afraid of doing to him (if applicable)? Could a negative reaction from you do more damage to him than he could be possibly doing to himself, or letting somebody else do to him?
I too, wonder if he has been abused, or if the things he is doing is because of some sort of peer pressure. Is the friend older?
DS is 11, so I really wish he didn't have sexual encounters. He is clearly more in touch with his sexuality than many kids, and I do not believe it is because of abuse.
When I was the age you were watching porno with your friends, all the kids in my neighborhood were too, but I guess someone got the memo about masturbation, because everyone knew about that. I think your own discovery came later than most boys' from my own experience and research. I suspect that his exploration here is more in line with watching porn with friends than adult sexual behavior but I may be wrong.
My mom was a neglectful addict. I don't think we want to compare.
The friend is in the same grade and their relationship is pretty equal.
DS is 11, so I really wish he didn't have sexual encounters. He is clearly more in touch with his sexuality than many kids, and I do not believe it is because of abuse.
When I was the age you were watching porno with your friends, all the kids in my neighborhood were too, but I guess someone got the memo about masturbation, because everyone knew about that. I think your own discovery came later than most boys' from my own experience and research. I suspect that his exploration here is more in line with watching porn with friends than adult sexual behavior but I may be wrong.
My mom was a neglectful addict. I don't think we want to compare.
The friend is in the same grade and their relationship is pretty equal.
For the record, I did know about masturbation at that point, I just didn't have a desire to do it yet.
As for your son, you and your wife are his parents, and only you guys know what's best for him (go with your gut).
I wish you and your family a happy and peaceful resolution.
For the record, I did know about masturbation at that point, I just didn't have a desire to do it yet.
As for your son, you and your wife are his parents, and only you guys know what's best for him (go with your gut).
I wish you and your family a happy and peaceful resolution.
Thanks for all the thoughts. I really do appreciate getting another man's insights in addition to the ladies' great advice.
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(if they had any
). I probably didn't see my first porn movie until 12 or 13, and it was usually in a group of boys, but getting out our Johnsons and wanking it never crossed our minds (at least not mine), and the idea of doing so was never vocalized by any of the other boys. In my case, "self-exploration" didn't occur until about 13 1/2, with my first sexual experience occurring at 14.
