Could Child-Rearing become a State-run institution? LOL (support, parent, appropriate)
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That adjustment for family income is relevant because people who earn more tend to hire people to supervise their children at home during the teen years.
Could you post data on that? This is one I've never heard. Most couples I know earn upwards of $150K yet do not hire supervision for teens. Last time I looked, the average income for a dual working parent couple was something in the upper $50K range.
What income ranges hire supervision for teens? I'd love to look at this data but can't seem to find it online.
From what I've read, adjustment for family income is relevent because higher SES is equated with better outcomes for children. Lower drug usage, lower teen pregnancy rates and higher educational goals and attainment. I've never read that hiring supervision for teens is equated with higher income. I don't know about sexual activity rates other than maternal education's impact there. For a girl with a mother of my educational background in a two parent household with her biological parents, only 14% are sexually active before the age of 15. Rates are much higher in other demographics but stats don't matter if your kid is one of them. All parents ever can do is stack the deck. Sometimes, it just doesn't work.
Thanks in advance for posting your source for this information. I had no idea that higher SES was equated with hiring supervision for teens.
Sorry, I can back what I say with research. Can you?
For all the hoopla surrounding this debate, when you stand our adult children side by side, it's pretty hard to tell the difference. While there are some that favor the working mom, they may not be causal.
You're the one trying to claim what you do is superior. You're the one doing the wishing. I can prove my point. I don't have to wish.
I never claimed that what I am doing is superior. I respect people's choice to go back to work and parent and I respect people's choice to stay home and parent. You are the one who continues to make snide remarks and misguided assumptions about what I as a sahm do with my child all day.
I don't need a research study to tell me that my daughter needs me to be home with her. My heart and my gut tells me that she does. That's enough for me. Kids are different and maybe some don't need Mom around as much but my decision is based on what I feel is best for myself, my child and my family. That is all that matters.
What is your point anyway? You have these long drawn out posts that romanticize an era that you were never a part of and then you complain that kids lack responsibility because they no longer live in that era. How are kids in daycare today better off then stay at home kids when neither live in that romanticized version of history of which you speak of? So please do tell us what your point is.
I wish that all I did was play patty cake with a baby and swish toilets! LOL!!
At home, I cook three homemade meals for my family (we do not rely on fatty, salty convenience foods or takeout), train the children to cook, do chores, and pitch in around the house (which is much more daunting than doing them myself!), homeschool the kids for a few hours per day, take them to their various social and enrichment activities, go to the library weekly, spend time PLAYING with my children, go for walks, and fold endless amounts of laundry (where does it all come from, anyway). I try to get most of the chores done during the week so that I can relax with my husband and children when DH is home on the weekends. I also do some freelance writing in the evenings to plump our savings account and so that we have fun money to go on vacations and things like that.
Could I simply send the kids off to school to be taught by other people (I guess what they are doing is important, but what I'm doing is not?), then to after school care to be supervised by people doing an important job (unlike my job of watching my own children), then have them come home to eat some Stouffer's "homemade" meatloaf, then run them to karate/ballet classes, then hustle them into the shower and off to bed, then do all of the household chores, then go to bed and set the alarm so that I could do it all again in the name of having an "important" job teaching someone else's kids, or cooking for other poeple, or whatever? Sure. Would the kids be okay? I'm sure they would be.
It makes me a little and and to think that all of the people teaching and providing care for other people's children are doing an "important job," but that mothers who care for and teach their own children are not. What kind of logic is that?
It makes me a little and and to think that all of the people teaching and providing care for other people's children are doing an "important job," but that mothers who care for and teach their own children are not. What kind of logic is that?
Could I simply send the kids off to school to be taught by other people (I guess what they are doing is important, but what I'm doing is not?), then to after school care to be supervised by people doing an important job (unlike my job of watching my own children), then have them come home to eat some Stouffer's "homemade" meatloaf, then run them to karate/ballet classes, then hustle them into the shower and off to bed, then do all of the household chores, then go to bed and set the alarm so that I could do it all again in the name of having an "important" job teaching someone else's kids, or cooking for other poeple, or whatever? Sure. Would the kids be okay? I'm sure they would be.
This is why I quit working. I got home at 6pm. My children went to bed at 8pm. During that 2 hours home, I cooked dinner and gave the children baths. The only "semi-quality time" was eating dinner as a family and reading bedtime stories. Total of 45 minutes quality time per day with my children. And I only got 45 minutes if I cooked something that was done in 45 minutes. When I quit my job, my family ate better meals and I got to spend REAL quality time with my children doing things with them, not just on weekends but every day! There is simply NO WAY a parent who is only with their children 2 hours per day can have enough quality time with their children.
This is why I quit working. I got home at 6pm. My children went to bed at 8pm. During that 2 hours home, I cooked dinner and gave the children baths. The only "semi-quality time" was eating dinner as a family and reading bedtime stories. Total of 45 minutes quality time per day with my children. And I only got 45 minutes if I cooked something that was done in 45 minutes. When I quit my job, my family ate better meals and I got to spend REAL quality time with my children doing things with them, not just on weekends but every day! There is simply NO WAY a parent who is only with their children 2 hours per day can have enough quality time with their children.
You sure are spending a lot of quality time with the internet.
You sure are spending a lot of quality time with the internet.
Even with some Internet surfing, you still have a lot more time for your kids when you're at home. Ideally, sure, there should be NO internet surfing. But think how much of that people do at work!
I wish that all I did was play patty cake with a baby and swish toilets! LOL!!
At home, I cook three homemade meals for my family (we do not rely on fatty, salty convenience foods or takeout), train the children to cook, do chores, and pitch in around the house (which is much more daunting than doing them myself!), homeschool the kids for a few hours per day, take them to their various social and enrichment activities, go to the library weekly, spend time PLAYING with my children, go for walks, and fold endless amounts of laundry (where does it all come from, anyway). I try to get most of the chores done during the week so that I can relax with my husband and children when DH is home on the weekends. I also do some freelance writing in the evenings to plump our savings account and so that we have fun money to go on vacations and things like that.
Could I simply send the kids off to school to be taught by other people (I guess what they are doing is important, but what I'm doing is not?), then to after school care to be supervised by people doing an important job (unlike my job of watching my own children), then have them come home to eat some Stouffer's "homemade" meatloaf, then run them to karate/ballet classes, then hustle them into the shower and off to bed, then do all of the household chores, then go to bed and set the alarm so that I could do it all again in the name of having an "important" job teaching someone else's kids, or cooking for other poeple, or whatever? Sure. Would the kids be okay? I'm sure they would be.
It makes me a little and and to think that all of the people teaching and providing care for other people's children are doing an "important job," but that mothers who care for and teach their own children are not. What kind of logic is that?
My point, which was missed by many, is that we've had about 80 hours a week of housework removed from our week compared to our foremothers who had next to NO time to play patty cake. It, simply, was not about the children. I have no idea why we think it is now. Our children haven't changed.
Parents (kids have fathers too so I have no idea why people keep talking only about mothers) teaching their kids is important. The point, again missed, is that THAT is not dependent on your working status. That it is not necessary to stay at home to accomplish this. All parents teach their kids (for better or for worse) not just those who don't hold down jobs.
Our roles at home have changed and changed drastically. In pioneer days or on the farm, mom's labor was as critical to the survival of the family as dad's. Now Delmonte cans the vegetables, Borden provides the milk, and Tastee bread provides the bread. Little of the work our foremothers did that their families relied on is left and what is left is just minor chores. It should come as no surprise that women have gone looking for their sense of purpose out in the real world. Women have always had work that contributed in meaningful ways to the survival of their families. At least up until half way through the last century. That's when everything changed, drastically.
I am not saying parenting is not important. I am saying you don't have to quit your job to parent well and that the work left for women at home is nothing but a handful of chores compared to the contribution of our foremothers.
Bake bread for your family and your family has fresh bread, which they could have bought at the bakery anyway. Bake bread at a bakery and hundreds of families have bread. Yes, it's different when you share your talents with society. I can teach my two children only or I can teach hundreds of kids over the years including my two. Which is more important to society? I will teach my two children whether I teach others or not so there will be no difference in my kids. There is no reason to deny my skills to society or to pretend I'd be just as important if I quit my job and didn't teach anyone elses kids. I wouldn't be. At least my contribution wouldn't be. As a person I still would be but I'd just contribute less.
It really doesn't matter if the meatloaf comes from Boston Market (are they around anymore?) or is homemade. It's just as nutritious either way. When the only way you were fed was if someone cooked at home, cooking at home was of great value. Now you can take it or leave it. Cooking at home is, usually, cheaper than picking something up or going out but when compared to the loss of income incurred to allow cooking at home, it's probbaly at great cost.
As a teacher, I don't make much but we still come out ahead even if we do pick up the meatloaf on the way home instead of make it from scratch. The person who makes the meatloaf at Boston Market or wherever makes it possible for so many to work and still have dinner on time. I appreciate what they do. They make my life better. So does DelMonte, and Tastee bread, and Borden and all the other companies who now produce the foods mom would have had to in yesteryear. I also appreciate the supermarket chains, my refrigerator/freezer, my no wax floors, my no stick cookware, my crock pot and granma's favorite...INDOOR PLUMBING.
So much work has been taken out of our week that it should come as no surprise that we've gone looking for, meaningful, ways to fill the hours that were once filled with work our families depended on. Unfortunately, one of the things we did to try and adress this is elevate the importance of playing patty cake to levels it had never seen before (why do we even need Mommy and Me classes?). Suddenly, what had been an afterthought for all of history became the thing we structure our lives around. THAT, I believe, was a mistake.
Last edited by grimalkinskeeper; 02-10-2010 at 01:47 PM..
I've never felt the need to justify my decision. I did my homework. I did do some, serious, research before my kids were born. Like many, I'd been brainwashed into thinking that working was somehow harmful.
Like many, I'd been brainwashed into thinking that having a career and children and everything in between can be done just fine - with only a wee bit of "balancing skills". Havin' it all!
They say "I have been rich and I have been poor".
Well, I have worked full-time with kids and I have also been at home.
I am currently staying at home with kids while still working online, teaching college level courses part-time. I would love to NOT have to work for money at all, but I have to.
I don't rely exclusively on research studies to figure out life, even though I WORK in social research and I myself have been a producer of research studies (published, peer-reviewed). It is exactly because I know first hand how studies are done that I have limited faith in them.
I am a shoemaker and I know my shoes. When it comes to figuring out life, if you just go by "studies" but you suppress your gut feelings, intuition and good sense, you're in trouble.
Being in a dual-career family and trying to parent the right way is an EXHAUSTING, MISERABLE lifestyle. Something's gotta give. Whether on the nutrition front, family time, sleep time, mental and emotional availability for children and spouse, pace of life, external stresses associated with 2 careers - there are so many factors...and something's gotta give. Really.
Life can simply be enjoyed BETTER by everyone when a parent minds the bacon and the other minds the frying and everything else that comes with it in the domestic realm.
Drop the exclusive reliance on "social studies" (always written with an ulterior agenda in mind) and get back to intuition and common sense.
Try both. How was it when you worked full-time and tried to parent at the same time? How was it when you were at home and focused on the well-being of the family, including yours, at a slower pace of life?
How was it when you were doing everything 1000 miles an hour just to cram in everything? Have you conviced yourself that frozen dinners are just as good as home-cooked food? Did outside work feel like it provided an "escape"? Then what were you trying to escape? What you are doing at work - is it really all that engulfing and earth-shattering that is more important than your family's well being and a saner pace of life? With the jobs that exists today, it is so highly unlikely that you are deriving the fullfilment of your life from your full-time job!
You can ask yourself so many questions while trying out various situations - and then ding! you've conducted the most important research study you could possibly conduct: the one that you can see happening with your own eyes.
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How are kids in daycare today better off then stay at home kids when neither live in that romanticized version of history of which you speak of? So please do tell us what your point is.
and 
to think that all of the people teaching and providing care for other people's children are doing an "important job," but that mothers who care for and teach their own children are not. What kind of logic is that?
