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Old 06-18-2010, 06:54 PM
 
16,610 posts, read 19,052,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I would. The cheap labor types would love this - we'd be like a third world country with many families living under one roof. No one would need much money of course, they'd become very content with third world wages. All the kids just grow up, never leave home and like in third world countries, it would be common to see 15 adults and 25 children at least in one crowded home.

Men who move their wives or girlfriends into mama's house never leave mama. The big overgrown boys tend to "play around" drink too much. Sisters and sister-in-laws all sharing one kitchen end up in a pecking order, the alpha female takes over and the others become essentially servants. In American culture, it's one woman to a kitchen. Every man is the king of his household.
What makes you think that the nuclear family is superior? I don't know that being in the same house is necessarily fantastic, but that depends on how many people we are talking about and the relationships between them. I do like being very close to my grandchildren and children. We are in separate homes about 3/4 mile apart. We take the grandkids overnight about twice a week. Have you actually experienced living in a multigenerational household? Cultures differ in their experience of this. My parents lived with my grandmother after my dad got out of the service (WWII). I loved living with nana until I was 8 and my sister was 5. Then my grandma decided to divide her lot and give my dad and mom part of it to build their house on. Eventually, she downsized and moved to the next town, but we had Friday dinner with her practically every weekend even after that and so did my aunt and her two dds. It was not a bad way to grow up.

Doing without is not necessarily bad either. Simplifying your life can be a good thing. I grew up without a lot of money. We had lots of fun though especially since there were a lot of relatives in the same town. We rode bikes, hiked in the woods, chased ladybugs, played hide and seek, had backyard barbecues, sang around the piano, etc. (pianos may be too expensive, but guitars are often available and singing can be acapella).

Dorothy
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:10 PM
 
3 posts, read 5,874 times
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I can't get over the fact that I beat myself up because I feel morally I'm doing something wrong if I ask him to leave. I've got to get the courage to tell him it's time for him to go his own way. He was a very successful business owner but did some unethical things dealing with a govt entity (relating to gifts) and spent two years in jail lost his wife and what he had left after legal fees. While he was in jail she cleaned him out. Funny thing is while he was living the big life he never gave me or my brother a second thought. But now he's destitute and he comes to get assistance from the kid who he never wanted to support. The thing that gets me the most is he seems to feel that I should not mind him being here taking my families privacy away and expecting me to support him. He does not see it as support because I would be paying house note, insurance, taxes, utilities, cable, Internet and phone anyway. According to his thought process I guess he's not using additional utilities. It's amazing how people can justify their actions. It's sad but for my sanity I've got to ask him to leave.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:19 PM
 
47,531 posts, read 62,744,929 times
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Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
What makes you think that the nuclear family is superior? I don't know that being in the same house is necessarily fantastic, but that depends on how many people we are talking about and the relationships between them. I do like being very close to my grandchildren and children. We are in separate homes about 3/4 mile apart. We take the grandkids overnight about twice a week. Have you actually experienced living in a multigenerational household? Cultures differ in their experience of this. My parents lived with my grandmother after my dad got out of the service (WWII). I loved living with nana until I was 8 and my sister was 5. Then my grandma decided to divide her lot and give my dad and mom part of it to build their house on. Eventually, she downsized and moved to the next town, but we had Friday dinner with her practically every weekend even after that and so did my aunt and her two dds. It was not a bad way to grow up.

Doing without is not necessarily bad either. Simplifying your life can be a good thing. I grew up without a lot of money. We had lots of fun though especially since there were a lot of relatives in the same town. We rode bikes, hiked in the woods, chased ladybugs, played hide and seek, had backyard barbecues, sang around the piano, etc. (pianos may be too expensive, but guitars are often available and singing can be acapella).

Dorothy
It's cultural. In some countries - usually quite poor ones, you find all or half of the adult children still living in the home with the parents and often aunts and uncles are there, even the grandparents of the adult childen. It helps bring about low wage societies because no one needs much money if they never need to buy their own house or support their own families.

There can be some advantages - children have 20-30 cousins and siblings under the same roof to play with and there will always be some adults home to supervise. Many adults in these settings don't have to work, alcoholic uncles can just hang around and be provided food.

There are disadvantages also. People aren't as mobile, young adults don't learn to get out on their own, they live with the matriarch or patriarch's rules and of course the overcrowding can bring about disease. The worst are the low wages that this kind of crowded living encourages. All anyone needs are the same kinds of wages a typical 15 or 16 year old earns while still living with mom and dad.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:25 PM
 
47,531 posts, read 62,744,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandee01 View Post
I can't get over the fact that I beat myself up because I feel morally I'm doing something wrong if I ask him to leave. I've got to get the courage to tell him it's time for him to go his own way. He was a very successful business owner but did some unethical things dealing with a govt entity (relating to gifts) and spent two years in jail lost his wife and what he had left after legal fees. While he was in jail she cleaned him out. Funny thing is while he was living the big life he never gave me or my brother a second thought. But now he's destitute and he comes to get assistance from the kid who he never wanted to support. The thing that gets me the most is he seems to feel that I should not mind him being here taking my families privacy away and expecting me to support him. He does not see it as support because I would be paying house note, insurance, taxes, utilities, cable, Internet and phone anyway. According to his thought process I guess he's not using additional utilities. It's amazing how people can justify their actions. It's sad but for my sanity I've got to ask him to leave.
And the sooner the better.

Adult family members are just like any other adults you consider as roommates. If they contribute in some way - whether it's exchange of babysitting services for a place to stay or some other contribution - it's okay if they are parent and child at least for a while.

When it's just about using someone, getting a free ride, mooching - it doesn't matter if it's a parent, an adult child, a sibling, or acquaintance -- freeloading is freeloading.

Tell him you need the room for a home office or for some other purpose but get him out. Or have some helpful relatives agree to move in for a time and help push him out. Or be straight out honest and remind him he never gave you anything and you'd like to repay the favor.
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:38 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 6,503,472 times
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Originally Posted by malamute View Post
In American culture, it's one woman to a kitchen. Every man is the king of his household.
Til' you completely run out of oil. Let's pick the discussion back up again - then.
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:51 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 6,503,472 times
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Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
I do like being very close to my grandchildren and children. We are in separate homes about 3/4 mile apart. We take the grandkids overnight about twice a week.
I am jealous of your children, nana.

Joking aside, what a blessing for a clearly sweet nana and her family; and what a blessing for your grandchildren!
I grew up in a multigenerational household too, with my beloved grandmother being the center of my Universe at the time, though I was surrounded by other caring adults as well.

There is absolutely no comparison in term of quality of life for everyone involved between the nuclear/isolated lifestyele typical of the American mainstream today and the multigenerational lifestyle.
The latter winns hands down - provided the physical living conditions are not too crowded and the relationships between family members are warm and supportive. When those conditions are met, life is a breeze - a fun and largely secure one for that matter, even when the family overall is far from being financially prosperous.
Kids often live childhoods of fairytale proportions under such circumstances.

Enjoy each other - yes, it is how it should be.
[/quote]
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:06 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 6,503,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's cultural. In some countries - usually quite poor ones, you find all or half of the adult children still living in the home with the parents and often aunts and uncles are there, even the grandparents of the adult childen. It helps bring about low wage societies because no one needs much money if they never need to buy their own house or support their own families.
With all due respect, you have it backwards, malamute.
So allow me to suggest an alternate vision.

<<It's cultural. In some countries - usually the rich ones, with daddy banks giving people the illusion of independence via tricky loans, you find every couple eating up a lot of space and natural resources by establishing separate households from day 1, and resorting to paid services for each and every step they can't make themselves, in person - instead of using the much more natural reciprocal help arrangements. It helps commercial and bank interests because this way everyone needs a lot of borrowed money to buy their own house and to support their own families, all under the illusion of "independence".>>

Last time I checked, Daddy Bank was showing us some tough love.
Ask the foreclosed babies, they sure didn't appreciate the spanking.
Daddy bank might get even meaner soon enough.

Then we might just all start dreamin' about mama-in-law. Maybe.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:28 PM
 
16,610 posts, read 19,052,392 times
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Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I am jealous of your children, nana.

Joking aside, what a blessing for a clearly sweet nana and her family; and what a blessing for your grandchildren!
I grew up in a multigenerational household too, with my beloved grandmother being the center of my Universe at the time, though I was surrounded by other caring adults as well.

There is absolutely no comparison in term of quality of life for everyone involved between the nuclear/isolated lifestyele typical of the American mainstream today and the multigenerational lifestyle.
The latter winns hands down - provided the physical living conditions are not too crowded and the relationships between family members are warm and supportive. When those conditions are met, life is a breeze - a fun and largely secure one for that matter, even when the family overall is far from being financially prosperous.
Kids often live childhoods of fairytale proportions under such circumstances.

Enjoy each other - yes, it is how it should be.
[/quote]

We actually never knew we were *poor* since we always had enough to eat and a roof over our heads. We were quite rich in terms of love and family and friendships. My dad never failed to bring us home one of those little golden books that cost 10 cents back then and I got my love of reading from that.
When my dad was out of work for a while, mom went to work. Family helped out too. We wore hand me downs and certainly did know that we did not have as much as some of our relatives or some of our classmates, but it really did not matter. Many of the wealthy kids got in a lot of trouble eventually because they had parents who substituted money for love (not all of them, but certainly some including one of my cousins who rode his motorcycle from his house into the pool when he was drunk having a party when his parents were not home. He broke several bones and was lucky he didn't kill himself.)

Dorothy
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:55 PM
 
47,531 posts, read 62,744,929 times
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Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Til' you completely run out of oil. Let's pick the discussion back up again - then.
I don't think you have to worry - we're headed toward third world living standards where many families will share a home and kids can never grow up and leave home.

I've seen it - 3 separate nuclear families living in one single wide run down trailer. Families where out of 8 children, 5 stay in the home of the parents bringing in wives or husbands or girlfriends and the family all squeezes in. Sometimes there are 5 kids sleeping in one bed, their parents on the floor because the family occupies one bedroom of a house shared by several families. Teenage kids end up sleeping on couches or wherever they find a spot. Even a 4 or 5 bedroom house gets pretty crowded fast when none of the adult children can ever afford to leave home.

The collapse of our economy and the demand for ultra cheap labor will bring this nostalgic way of life back.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:22 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 6,503,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I don't think you have to worry - we're headed toward third world living standards where many families will share a home and kids can never grow up and leave home.

I've seen it - 3 separate nuclear families living in one single wide run down trailer. Families where out of 8 children, 5 stay in the home of the parents bringing in wives or husbands or girlfriends and the family all squeezes in. Sometimes there are 5 kids sleeping in one bed, their parents on the floor because the family occupies one bedroom of a house shared by several families. Teenage kids end up sleeping on couches or wherever they find a spot. Even a 4 or 5 bedroom house gets pretty crowded fast when none of the adult children can ever afford to leave home.

The collapse of our economy and the demand for ultra cheap labor will bring this nostalgic way of life back.
Yeap. It just might.

Perhaps not quite at the levels you describe, not here in the States, and not quite yet - but I am curious to see how it will all work out.
In the meantime, using lots of contraceptives might be a decent enough idea.
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