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Old 02-27-2010, 02:11 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,676,449 times
Reputation: 2194

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Maybe they can, maybe they can't but I will not gamble with my children. Without some reason to believe that the mom in question was a DCP because that's what she wanted to be, as opposed to what she had to be in order to avoid putting her own children in day care, I'm moving on. I don't gamble with my children. Period. IMO, suddenly, developing an itch to be a DCP because you had a baby is suspect. And no, I'm not giving you a chance because giving you a chance means gambling with my children. I'd be a **** poor mother if I did that.

You need to KNOW your dcp choice is a good one. Babies do not do well if you have to switch dcps on them after they've bonded. This is not something you gamble with. You make sure your choice is good. You do that by choosing someone who shows evidence of being a DCP because that's what they feel called to do. Not someone who shows evidence of choosing to be a DCP so they could make money from home because they had a baby and don't want to leave their baby (which is what it looks like when having a baby is what makes you decide to become a dcp). Most moms are not capable of treating other children equal to their own. To use a DCP with her own children at home is risky. What kind of mother takes that kind of risk with her children? Ans: Not one I want to be. I've seen too many situations where mom became a DCP because she just didn't want to leave her own baby where she treated her own kids better than the other kids in her care or, outright, resented the intrusion of the other kids on her life. Are they all like that? Probably not but I'm not gambling with my children. If someone else is stupid enough to take this gamble, I hope it works out for their children's sake but I will protect mine the best I can and I'll start by making sure their DCP is a DCP because that's her calling not because it's convenient now that she has kids and needs to make money but doesn't want to leave her house to do it.
Wow. You paint an ugly picture.

My oldest went to a stay at home mom for child care when she was 5-7. She adored her. Her two sons were kind and sweet with the other kids, including babies. The woman took care of 6-8 kids through the week. She was a wonderful child care provider. My daughter still has fond memories of staying there while I worked.

When my 16 year old was 2 and 3, I took care of other kids. I had two babies and two pre-schoolers.

Exactly what is the 'gamble' you think you take when having a stay at home mom care for your kids? It happens all the time.
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,738 posts, read 8,256,043 times
Reputation: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilmayjune View Post
I am a 34-year old, married, childfree woman who works full time and owns a house. I was raised in a traditional nuclear single-income family (probably among the last of an era) with 3 siblings. It is no surprise to me that I love living in a DINK household now. We have agonized over whether or not to have children for the past few years, and with all things considered, we're almost certain we won't.

We've had to think about the same question as you of course, and when I look around at all of the couples having children, especially in the current economic climate, they either 1. don't care about the prospect of being poor, 2. come from old money or at least a family of significant assets, 3. receive financial assistance from relatives, the government, and often community fundraisers if they get caught in a tough situation, or 4. a combination of those. I would wager a guess that very very few parents raise their children solely on money earned from their work...and I'm sure there's been a study done on the subject sometime...somewhere...
I disagree! this is a stereotype! I am not poor, I don't come from old money, received no money from family or gov so nope your wrong! I know many others my age(25-30) who live on THEIR OWN MONEY and careers and are successful happy one income households! .... I didn't make the choice about having children according to if they would make me poor or not but I did make sure we could provide for them. ...we have a daughter! I expect to be poor after her daddy buys her everything she wants. (just kidding but she's got him beat)
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,738 posts, read 8,256,043 times
Reputation: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Maybe they can, maybe they can't but I will not gamble with my children. Without some reason to believe that the mom in question was a DCP because that's what she wanted to be, as opposed to what she had to be in order to avoid putting her own children in day care, I'm moving on. I don't gamble with my children. Period. IMO, suddenly, developing an itch to be a DCP because you had a baby is suspect. And no, I'm not giving you a chance because giving you a chance means gambling with my children. I'd be a **** poor mother if I did that.

You need to KNOW your dcp choice is a good one. Babies do not do well if you have to switch dcps on them after they've bonded. This is not something you gamble with. You make sure your choice is good. You do that by choosing someone who shows evidence of being a DCP because that's what they feel called to do. Not someone who shows evidence of choosing to be a DCP so they could make money from home because they had a baby and don't want to leave their baby (which is what it looks like when having a baby is what makes you decide to become a dcp). Most moms are not capable of treating other children equal to their own. To use a DCP with her own children at home is risky. What kind of mother takes that kind of risk with her children? Ans: Not one I want to be. I've seen too many situations where mom became a DCP because she just didn't want to leave her own baby where she treated her own kids better than the other kids in her care or, outright, resented the intrusion of the other kids on her life. Are they all like that? Probably not but I'm not gambling with my children. If someone else is stupid enough to take this gamble, I hope it works out for their children's sake but I will protect mine the best I can and I'll start by making sure their DCP is a DCP because that's her calling not because it's convenient now that she has kids and needs to make money but doesn't want to leave her house to do it.
ivory, I know this is such a silly comment and I'm not picking but I counted how many times you wrote "gamble" ....it made me giggle.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,354,751 times
Reputation: 41121
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilmayjune View Post
I am a 34-year old, married, childfree woman who works full time and owns a house. I was raised in a traditional nuclear single-income family (probably among the last of an era) with 3 siblings. It is no surprise to me that I love living in a DINK household now. We have agonized over whether or not to have children for the past few years, and with all things considered, we're almost certain we won't.

We've had to think about the same question as you of course, and when I look around at all of the couples having children, especially in the current economic climate, they either 1. don't care about the prospect of being poor, 2. come from old money or at least a family of significant assets, 3. receive financial assistance from relatives, the government, and often community fundraisers if they get caught in a tough situation, or 4. a combination of those. I would wager a guess that very very few parents raise their children solely on money earned from their work...and I'm sure there's been a study done on the subject sometime...somewhere...
Seriously?

Wow....My kids are older so I've know a lot of people with kids over the years. Not to mention my nieces and nephew are mostly grown with kids of their own....I know very few people who fit any of those descriptions. Most parents I know, are not being assisted by their parents, the government or community fundraisers. I don't know that I know of anyone I would call "poor" and very few I would describe as seriously "wealthy" - they are in that vast spectrum in between. Some have 2 incomes some have one income...
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:30 PM
 
2,839 posts, read 9,958,771 times
Reputation: 2944
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilmayjune View Post

We've had to think about the same question as you of course, and when I look around at all of the couples having children, especially in the current economic climate, they either 1. don't care about the prospect of being poor, 2. come from old money or at least a family of significant assets, 3. receive financial assistance from relatives, the government, and often community fundraisers if they get caught in a tough situation, or 4. a combination of those. I would wager a guess that very very few parents raise their children solely on money earned from their work...and I'm sure there's been a study done on the subject sometime...somewhere...

I have a lot of friends and acquaintances, and almost all of them are stay-at-home moms living on one income (their husband's). They are not poor, don't have old money, don't receive financial assistance. I'm not sure what circles you run in (I assume the happy-to-be-childfree circles, which don't exactly give you an accurate picture of parenthood, LOL), but what you describe is certainly not the norm.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 5,138,289 times
Reputation: 2371
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilmayjune View Post
I am a 34-year old, married, childfree woman who works full time and owns a house. I was raised in a traditional nuclear single-income family (probably among the last of an era) with 3 siblings. It is no surprise to me that I love living in a DINK household now. We have agonized over whether or not to have children for the past few years, and with all things considered, we're almost certain we won't.

We've had to think about the same question as you of course, and when I look around at all of the couples having children, especially in the current economic climate, they either 1. don't care about the prospect of being poor, 2. come from old money or at least a family of significant assets, 3. receive financial assistance from relatives, the government, and often community fundraisers if they get caught in a tough situation, or 4. a combination of those. I would wager a guess that very very few parents raise their children solely on money earned from their work...and I'm sure there's been a study done on the subject sometime...somewhere...
Your views on having children are very odd to me.

I don't fit any of those descriptions and neither do any of my friends or family members. The only people I know who I would consider rich and "come from family money" are all single with no kids. I am in no way poor and don't have anyone I'm related to that I could borrow money from (or want to, for that matter). As for government or charitable handouts, I have never had the need to get "handouts" from anyone. As a matter of a fact, I'm a volunteer at a food bank and regularly give my kids clothes to charity so that people who aren't as fortunate as I am can wear them.

I consider myself very middle-of-the-road, married with 2 kids. I graduated from a very good private university and paid for the entire thing without help from my parents. Tuition in 1990-1994 was $28K per year and I was able to spend my junior year studying abroad in Italy to the tune of $35K per year. I had student loans that I paid off during the required 10-year period and didn't regret one payment. My husband didn't get a traditional college degree but was able to get his bachelor's degree over a longer period of time while he worked full time.

We don't make a six figure income but are able to live in a nice house in a fantastic school district, have very good health insurance and retirement plans, a significant savings account, go on vacations and mini-breaks, dress my children in clothes that fit them AND are in style and I even am able to buy things for myself. We HAVE given up a few things and don't have lots of disposable income, but lots of disposable income is not a crucial factor when raising kids.

Having enough money to provide us all with a nice life has always been my priority and since we don't have any debt besides a car payment and a mortgage, we are able to do just fine. It's about having a financial plan and sticking to it. It's about understanding that there is a difference in lifestyle between a family who makes $250K per year and a family who makes $75K per year and the family making $75K per year cannot live like they're rich. I have learned my lessons on "trying to keep up with the Joneses".

Your comments lead me to believe either you're very hostile about people who have kids, you have a very limited group of people you know that have kids, or you have the impression that all children must have IPods, new cars for their 16th birthday, name-brand clothes, private school tuition and be participants in very expensive extracurricular activities. While that may be true for some, it's not reality for the other 98% of us.

I'm happy that you seem content in your life. I am sorry that you have obviously met some people who have strong opinions about you deciding not to have children. People are jerks and there are far too many people out there who are willing to cast judgment about others without knowing them at all. It doesn't sound like you're ready or willing to have children and I admire that. It's hard to swim upstream. In the end, you have to decide what's best for you and your spouse. The worst kind of environment to raise a child in is one where both parents are not on board with having kids or parents aren't willing to change their lifestyle to accomodate children. Good for you for recognizing that you wouldn't be a good parent and thank you for not bringing a child into the world just because you caved to peer pressure.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,738 posts, read 8,256,043 times
Reputation: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by the3Ds View Post
Your views on having children are very odd to me.

I don't fit any of those descriptions and neither do any of my friends or family members. The only people I know who I would consider rich and "come from family money" are all single with no kids. I am in no way poor and don't have anyone I'm related to that I could borrow money from (or want to, for that matter). As for government or charitable handouts, I have never had the need to get "handouts" from anyone. As a matter of a fact, I'm a volunteer at a food bank and regularly give my kids clothes to charity so that people who aren't as fortunate as I am can wear them.

I consider myself very middle-of-the-road, married with 2 kids. I graduated from a very good private university and paid for the entire thing without help from my parents. Tuition in 1990-1994 was $28K per year and I was able to spend my junior year studying abroad in Italy to the tune of $35K per year. I had student loans that I paid off during the required 10-year period and didn't regret one payment. My husband didn't get a traditional college degree but was able to get his bachelor's degree over a longer period of time while he worked full time.

We don't make a six figure income but are able to live in a nice house in a fantastic school district, have very good health insurance and retirement plans, a significant savings account, go on vacations and mini-breaks, dress my children in clothes that fit them AND are in style and I even am able to buy things for myself. We HAVE given up a few things and don't have lots of disposable income, but lots of disposable income is not a crucial factor when raising kids.

Having enough money to provide us all with a nice life has always been my priority and since we don't have any debt besides a car payment and a mortgage, we are able to do just fine. It's about having a financial plan and sticking to it. It's about understanding that there is a difference in lifestyle between a family who makes $250K per year and a family who makes $75K per year and the family making $75K per year cannot live like they're rich. I have learned my lessons on "trying to keep up with the Joneses".

Your comments lead me to believe either you're very hostile about people who have kids, you have a very limited group of people you know that have kids, or you have the impression that all children must have IPods, new cars for their 16th birthday, name-brand clothes, private school tuition and be participants in very expensive extracurricular activities. While that may be true for some, it's not reality for the other 98% of us.

I'm happy that you seem content in your life. I am sorry that you have obviously met some people who have strong opinions about you deciding not to have children. People are jerks and there are far too many people out there who are willing to cast judgment about others without knowing them at all. It doesn't sound like you're ready or willing to have children and I admire that. It's hard to swim upstream. In the end, you have to decide what's best for you and your spouse. The worst kind of environment to raise a child in is one where both parents are not on board with having kids or parents aren't willing to change their lifestyle to accomodate children. Good for you for recognizing that you wouldn't be a good parent and thank you for not bringing a child into the world just because you caved to peer pressure.
your fantastic!
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,416,732 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly3120 View Post
ivory, I know this is such a silly comment and I'm not picking but I counted how many times you wrote "gamble" ....it made me giggle.
I'm glad you think gambling with our children is funny.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,416,732 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilmayjune View Post
I am a 34-year old, married, childfree woman who works full time and owns a house. I was raised in a traditional nuclear single-income family (probably among the last of an era) with 3 siblings. It is no surprise to me that I love living in a DINK household now. We have agonized over whether or not to have children for the past few years, and with all things considered, we're almost certain we won't.

We've had to think about the same question as you of course, and when I look around at all of the couples having children, especially in the current economic climate, they either 1. don't care about the prospect of being poor, 2. come from old money or at least a family of significant assets, 3. receive financial assistance from relatives, the government, and often community fundraisers if they get caught in a tough situation, or 4. a combination of those. I would wager a guess that very very few parents raise their children solely on money earned from their work...and I'm sure there's been a study done on the subject sometime...somewhere...
I don't find your thoughts odd. Becomming a parent is a, huge, responsibility. I too find those who throw caution to the wind as if everything will just, magically, work out the odd ones. There were two masters degrees in this household before we had children. While we were not rich, either one of us was capable of earning enough to sustain us for a considerable amount of time by ourself. Not a guarantee by any means but there are none in life.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:51 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,162,500 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilmayjune View Post
We've had to think about the same question as you of course, and when I look around at all of the couples having children, especially in the current economic climate, they either 1. don't care about the prospect of being poor, 2. come from old money or at least a family of significant assets, 3. receive financial assistance from relatives, the government, and often community fundraisers if they get caught in a tough situation, or 4. a combination of those. I would wager a guess that very very few parents raise their children solely on money earned from their work...and I'm sure there's been a study done on the subject sometime...somewhere...
5. They are frugal people who know how to live within their means, stick to a budget, save money and live simply.
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